Poker Forum > Strategy
Can I have comments on this hand please, dubious pot odds call?
George2Loose:
ur calculating your odds against his range so it"s a snap call.
Biggest mistake a lot of players make is shoving with no f/e and then not understanding the call.
I"m calling here with 82 off if I"ve opened and got shoved on in this spot.
noble1:
--- Quote from: George2Loose on January 14, 2009, 17:54:49 PM ---
ur calculating your odds against his range so it"s a snap call.
Biggest mistake a lot of players make is shoving with no f/e and then not understanding the call.
I"m calling here with 82 off if I"ve opened and got shoved on in this spot.
--- End quote ---
loose george 82o nearly as bad as me lol lol i"d open up utg with 73o ;D and call... 8)
Waz1892:
--- Quote from: Swinebag22 on January 14, 2009, 16:50:48 PM ---
Do not confused between "pot odds" and chances of winning (referred to as equity).
You are talking about your chances of winning here but your calculation is not how you work out your chances of winning here.
firstly when calculating outs (lets say 6 for arguments sake here) you have to take it from unseen cards and not cards in the deck. So there are 48 unseen cards. this does not mean that his odds are 6 in 48 of winning (or 1 in 8 or 7 to 1 - whatever). The odds you worked out Waz were the chances of a winning card hitting "first card out". Of course during the showdown there will be five chances of hitting the winning card so your chances of hitting are greatly increased.
in this particular instance there is also a chance that JK only has 3 outs so this affects the calculation. If it is a coin flip against a lower pair then there is the chance that JK can win if two pair come on the board to counterfeit the smaller pair. There are of course straight and flush possibilities for JK to win.
So.....
all these possibilities of winning (however likely or unlikey) make calculating the chance of winning near impossible
enter our friend....."pokerstove"
this program will work out JKs equity against single hands as well as against a range of hands that could be reshoving against it.
Of course, during an online tournament you haven"t really got time to plug all this in so it comes down to playing around with pokerstove and familiarising yourself with the variables so that you have a good idea of the value of your hand against various hand ranges.
The key calculation that you can make are your "pot odds" which for KJ fella can be worked out as roughly just under 3 to 1. As a guide this can be argued as a call with with any 2 cards let alone the "powerhouse" that is KJ.
noble explains this stuff much better but I hope this helps
--- End quote ---
understand now the unseen cards..(did remember this afterwards..but ty)
pot odds - (for clarity assurance purpose)//amount required to bet..against amount to win in pot..then you have the implied odds if turn and river..etc)
summery - once pot odds are determined, (3-1) compare to number of outs you have (pokerstove) 7-1..bad call?
yet people are saying std call........I have much to learn!!
off to get pokerstove and re-read harrington.
I so want to learn more of the maths behind it, such an edge at my level, and I want to get better of course, I"m getting confused as to what I should be working out and when, let alone how!!
WarBwastardo:
--- Quote from: Waz1892 on January 14, 2009, 19:13:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: Swinebag22 on January 14, 2009, 16:50:48 PM ---
Do not confused between "pot odds" and chances of winning (referred to as equity).
You are talking about your chances of winning here but your calculation is not how you work out your chances of winning here.
firstly when calculating outs (lets say 6 for arguments sake here) you have to take it from unseen cards and not cards in the deck. So there are 48 unseen cards. this does not mean that his odds are 6 in 48 of winning (or 1 in 8 or 7 to 1 - whatever). The odds you worked out Waz were the chances of a winning card hitting "first card out". Of course during the showdown there will be five chances of hitting the winning card so your chances of hitting are greatly increased.
in this particular instance there is also a chance that JK only has 3 outs so this affects the calculation. If it is a coin flip against a lower pair then there is the chance that JK can win if two pair come on the board to counterfeit the smaller pair. There are of course straight and flush possibilities for JK to win.
So.....
all these possibilities of winning (however likely or unlikey) make calculating the chance of winning near impossible
enter our friend....."pokerstove"
this program will work out JKs equity against single hands as well as against a range of hands that could be reshoving against it.
Of course, during an online tournament you haven"t really got time to plug all this in so it comes down to playing around with pokerstove and familiarising yourself with the variables so that you have a good idea of the value of your hand against various hand ranges.
The key calculation that you can make are your "pot odds" which for KJ fella can be worked out as roughly just under 3 to 1. As a guide this can be argued as a call with with any 2 cards let alone the "powerhouse" that is KJ.
noble explains this stuff much better but I hope this helps
--- End quote ---
understand now the unseen cards..(did remember this afterwards..but ty)
pot odds - (for clarity assurance purpose)//amount required to bet..against amount to win in pot..then you have the implied odds if turn and river..etc)
summery - once pot odds are determined, (3-1) compare to number of outs you have (pokerstove) 7-1..bad call?
yet people are saying std call........I have much to learn!!
off to get pokerstove and re-read harrington.
I so want to learn more of the maths behind it, such an edge at my level, and I want to get better of course, I"m getting confused as to what I should be working out and when, let alone how!!
--- End quote ---
Where are you getting 7/1 from? If you have kings or aces he"s essentially dead - something like 8/1 - 9/1 dog. But if one of his cards are live he"s roughly 3/1 or just under.
Have you used a poker calculator? http://www.thehendonmob.com/pokercalc/index.html
Put the guys KJ in one box and bunch of different hands he could have been expecting to face in this situation i.e. under pairs, Kings, Aces, AK, AQ, etc it"ll give the percentages.
Swinebag:
--- Quote from: Waz1892 on January 14, 2009, 19:13:10 PM ---
summery - once pot odds are determined, (3-1) compare to number of outs you have (pokerstove) 7-1..bad call?
yet people are saying std call........I have much to learn!!
--- End quote ---
dont know where you are getting 7-1 from (I thought I explained that this was the chance of hitting your card "first card")
nobles earlier post explains KJs chances of winning against the re shovers possible range.....aaaah here it is..
--- Quote from: noble1 on January 13, 2009, 22:45:50 PM ---
his odds of 2.73 = 1/3.73*100=26.80% equity so even if he thinks your range is -
88+,ATs+,KQs,AKo
his equity to call is 31% so it is a auto call for a decent player considering blinds and what he has left behind..
--- End quote ---
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