Poker Forum > Live Poker
Honesty at the table??
Honeybadg:
--- Quote from: kinboshi on July 22, 2009, 13:51:32 PM ---
Yes, it was your KK. I knew you had at least a medium pair in that spot, but was getting so short I thought why not? Soon found out why not...
Yes, I thought our first table was good fun. Disagree about the dealing though from the first dealer - every hand was a mishap as far as I was concerned. Like I mentioned at the weekend, I play at DTD most weeks and I think I"m spoilt by the quality and consistent standard of the dealers to be honest.
The second dealer was better, even though he made a serious blunder on your hand when the other player hadn"t noticed your raise from UTG of 2K and then tried to raise himself to 1.5K. No one was sure if he"d said raise before or after the chips went it - and I think that"s pretty central to what the course of action should have been. If he said raise before the bet, then he should be made to min-raise to 4K. If he threw the chips in and then said raise, I think the correct ruling is that he should be made to call.
However, the dealer compounded the situation by returning the chips to the player and mucking his cards for him. That was a big mistake imo. The player has to be aware of action that"s taking place (and this dealer was leaving the chips in front of the players when they bet, so there was no excuse for not noticing your raise). The dealer shouldn"t just take it upon himself to return the chips and not enforce the action.
When the floor was called over, he made a common sense decision in my book. The player didn"t much the cards himself, it was the dealer who grabbed them from in front of the player immediately after returning the 1500 chips. The floor decided to retrieve the players hand from the muck (this is probably not the right thing to do in many people"s minds), and make the player make the call. From then the hand played out quite well for you :D!
Be interesting to hear other people"s reading on this situation and the decision.
--- End quote ---
It was a very irregular hand - Blinds 250/500 - Gareth Clearly raises to 2000.
Other player throws in 1500 chips - and says "1500".
Should stand as a call (and made up to 2000)
A decision(best one in the circumstances) was made and we got on with it.
Flop JT8 - Gareth all in
Called by J7 suited.
Gareth QQ ... which stands up.
Table 7 : Ran well in good spirits - Dealer inexperienced - I thought she did okay - I think the table was helpful to her - no dramas.
If the players aren"t helpful - general case I think the dealing gets worse - so our responsibility to help.
Neither of the tables that I played on had any trash talking - and no place for it within APAT - on a personal level I would just ignore it (or make a mental tape of it to amuse myself) but at the time it spoils the tournament for the rest of the table.
In terms of making APAT officials aware - I think this is the right answer but not always so easy mid tournament - you ask for the TD who makes a ruling - are you then suposed to say I don"t like that ruling can I speak to the APAT guys - tricky.
Louis
kinboshi:
Honeybadg:
--- Quote from: kinboshi on July 22, 2009, 16:29:31 PM ---
Yes, I thought the ruling from the floor (it wasn"t the TD, just one of the more competent and experienced dealers called John I think, who therefore wasn"t dealing at that time...:D) was absolutely right and the decision was accepted by all involved. I would have also accepted the player"s hand being dead, but it wouldn"t have been right for his chips to be returned in whatever circumstance (imo).
Despite the first dealer, I thoroughly enjoyed playing on both my first and second (and last) tables. Good banter, no malice or angle-shooting. Just good honest poker. Honest poker...bit of an oxymoron me thinks.
--- End quote ---
General point - I think it should be the TD making that decision.
Angle-shooting - We"ve all been at tournaments when people are shooting angles (sometimes not in the hand) and it is just so grating - and not part of poker for me - whereas the elaborate and well conceived bluff is a beautiful thing and to be celebrated with the ringing of bells.
Perhaps something should go in the briefing with regards to the differences between cash and tournament poker, and also the difference between online and face to face. Some people will be crossing both those bridges at once.
Claw75:
I remember when APAT was first conceived, one of it"s aims was to strive towards getting a standardised set of rules for UK tournament poker, and that APAT's set of rules would apply at all events. I know APAT had it"s own TD for a short while, but I had presumed that when it was decided that cardrooms" own TDs would run the tournament, that they would be applying APAT, rather than house, rules.
Have I understood correctly, or are APAT tournaments now just played according to the rules of the venue?
samuel_9:
:-* :-* :-* :-X :-X :P :P :P ;) ;)
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