Poker Forum > Strategy
noble1:
i"ll make a brief ish reply on how i"d play it and why based on the info you have given.
1. FLOP - call - i do not want to be seen/tagged as being weak tight and have the problem of more donk bets in the future. [has he seen you raise and fold to donk bets previously tp2p ?]
2. TURN - fold - if he fires again and no magical Queen arrives,if he checks then this is where i play it differently as to how others have suggested so far.If he checks then i will check also - why? - because if he does have a strong hand then he may be looking to check raise [us floating him may of occurred to him,incidentally if i were him i"d also have a check raise bluff in my repetoire of tricks as well ;D]
--- Quote ---So he bets 400 into a 700 pot? Standard IMO. Your choices are to float him by calling (what I would do) or fold here as you only have 10 cards to hit which MIGHT make you the best hand.
By floating him here with a decent stack behind, you"ll be able to re-assess after you see what he does on the turn.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---More or less this I think.
I"d raise less pre, flat this bet - pounce on any weakness on the turn.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---It"s wise, and dare I say it "fashionable", for him to lead into you (the PFRaiser) with a strong hand like JJ, TT or JT here. It"s done to try to entice you to re-raise with hands like AA, KK, QQ etc.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---The floating isn"t necessarily to hit. If he doesn"t bet the turn, then you can bet out and he"s going to struggle to play back unless he has a hand where he thinks he"s ahead. That"s the beauty of position.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Regardless of turn, if we are checked to we are firing at it.
--- End quote ---
I will check the turn still with the point of floating [a delayed float] and i"d bet out if he checks the river but the sizing will have to be pot ish or maybe a slight over bet of the pot [just in case he thinks middle pair or TPWK is worth check calling] Also i met consider calling a reasonable bet on the river from him if he makes it [bluff catch a missed draw etc]
All player dependent/reads/how good they are etc but i hope at least this may of given you a few more ideas to think about. [The turn/4th street imo is the hardest to play/learn,most players pick up quickly how to play pre-flop and the flop ok and the river has few decisions to make, which leaves us with good ole 4th street,the one part where a lot of us c#ck up ;D]
Chipaccrual:
--- Quote from: noble1 on September 07, 2009, 14:43:37 PM ---
i"ll make a brief ish reply on how i"d play it and why based on the info you have given.
1. FLOP - call - i do not want to be seen/tagged as being weak tight and have the problem of more donk bets in the future. [has he seen you raise and fold to donk bets previously tp2p ?]
2. TURN - fold - if he fires again and no magical Queen arrives,if he checks then this is where i play it differently as to how others have suggested so far.If he checks then i will check also - why? - because if he does have a strong hand then he may be looking to check raise [us floating him may of occurred to him,incidentally if i were him i"d also have a check raise bluff in my repetoire of tricks as well ;D]
--- Quote ---So he bets 400 into a 700 pot? Standard IMO. Your choices are to float him by calling (what I would do) or fold here as you only have 10 cards to hit which MIGHT make you the best hand.
By floating him here with a decent stack behind, you"ll be able to re-assess after you see what he does on the turn.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---More or less this I think.
I"d raise less pre, flat this bet - pounce on any weakness on the turn.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---It"s wise, and dare I say it "fashionable", for him to lead into you (the PFRaiser) with a strong hand like JJ, TT or JT here. It"s done to try to entice you to re-raise with hands like AA, KK, QQ etc.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---The floating isn"t necessarily to hit. If he doesn"t bet the turn, then you can bet out and he"s going to struggle to play back unless he has a hand where he thinks he"s ahead. That"s the beauty of position.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Regardless of turn, if we are checked to we are firing at it.
--- End quote ---
I will check the turn still with the point of floating [a delayed float] and i"d bet out if he checks the river but the sizing will have to be pot ish or maybe a slight over bet of the pot [just in case he thinks middle pair or TPWK is worth check calling] Also i met consider calling a reasonable bet on the river from him if he makes it [bluff catch a missed draw etc]
All player dependent/reads/how good they are etc but i hope at least this may of given you a few more ideas to think about. [The turn/4th street imo is the hardest to play/learn,most players pick up quickly how to play pre-flop and the flop ok and the river has few decisions to make, which leaves us with good ole 4th street,the one part where a lot of us c#ck up ;D]
--- End quote ---
noble, you don"t do brief replies. ;D
Great stuff.
Haven"t seen you on here much lately, hope all is good with you.
Marty719:
--- Quote from: noble1 on September 07, 2009, 14:43:37 PM ---
i"ll make a brief ish reply on how i"d play it and why based on the info you have given.
1. FLOP - call - i do not want to be seen/tagged as being weak tight and have the problem of more donk bets in the future. [has he seen you raise and fold to donk bets previously tp2p ?]
2. TURN - fold - if he fires again and no magical Queen arrives,if he checks then this is where i play it differently as to how others have suggested so far.If he checks then i will check also - why? - because if he does have a strong hand then he may be looking to check raise [us floating him may of occurred to him,incidentally if i were him i"d also have a check raise bluff in my repetoire of tricks as well ;D]
--- Quote ---So he bets 400 into a 700 pot? Standard IMO. Your choices are to float him by calling (what I would do) or fold here as you only have 10 cards to hit which MIGHT make you the best hand.
By floating him here with a decent stack behind, you"ll be able to re-assess after you see what he does on the turn.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---More or less this I think.
I"d raise less pre, flat this bet - pounce on any weakness on the turn.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---It"s wise, and dare I say it "fashionable", for him to lead into you (the PFRaiser) with a strong hand like JJ, TT or JT here. It"s done to try to entice you to re-raise with hands like AA, KK, QQ etc.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---The floating isn"t necessarily to hit. If he doesn"t bet the turn, then you can bet out and he"s going to struggle to play back unless he has a hand where he thinks he"s ahead. That"s the beauty of position.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---Regardless of turn, if we are checked to we are firing at it.
--- End quote ---
I will check the turn still with the point of floating [a delayed float] and i"d bet out if he checks the river but the sizing will have to be pot ish or maybe a slight over bet of the pot [just in case he thinks middle pair or TPWK is worth check calling] Also i met consider calling a reasonable bet on the river from him if he makes it [bluff catch a missed draw etc]
All player dependent/reads/how good they are etc but i hope at least this may of given you a few more ideas to think about. [The turn/4th street imo is the hardest to play/learn,most players pick up quickly how to play pre-flop and the flop ok and the river has few decisions to make, which leaves us with good ole 4th street,the one part where a lot of us c#ck up ;D]
--- End quote ---
I dnt think we can check the turn and bet pot on river if we have an ag image. I think if it goes check/check on the turn then we have to check river behind and hope for sum AK showdown value, but think it looks pretty weak if we check turn in position and then fire pot on river. I think by betting the turn we get to re-assess how comfortable he is with the situation and get an extra feel as to whether or not a river bet will work. Im not a huge fan of checking back in position tho so it totally depends on the table image of op I guess.
Also, if opponent is a player capable of check shoving draws on the turn then I do think it is right to check behind! I think that villain hero calls the river w/ Q10 where he may find it hard to call 2 shells. If u have a tight trappy image tho then I do think ur way works v well. Wud b interesting to hear how table perceived op?? Any history w/ villain??
Mikeyboy9361:
Great to have you back Noble.....you have been missed :)
noble1:
2 checks are key marty,if he were thinking to check raise the turn the majority of players now lead the river..
Have a browse though 2+2 pocket5"s and see how many will lead out/donk bet a strong hand on the flop with this type of texture and then check turn+river..My point being that to check twice his range is heavily weighted to drawing hands as is checking the turn and then leading the river as now his range will consist of monsters/weak hands which are putting out a blocker bet or a missed draw bluff..
Also dont discount which cards come on 4th 5th street , does the turn pair the board or the 3rd suit arrives etc etc
when using a delayed float we use our judgement.IMO todays better informed player is well aware of float plays and the type of good flop texture to do it with and they adjust to it/you especially if we were online and they had all your stats up on HUD..Also the higher the buy in/skill level of your opponents also has a bearing as well of course..
tyty all is good :) just been busy work wise and reading/discussing endless poker situations and trying to hone up my cash game..
btw the toffees RULE ;D
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