Poker Forum > Strategy

IPO day 2 misplayed hand - views welcome

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WYoung83:

Most People are saying that shoving pre flop is bad in this situation, because you have 17 BBs. But what about the Small blind and the Antes also. Do these not figure in Tourney strategy??? It is all about the cost of surviving an orbit  vs trying to go really deep, and with enough chips to sort of gain some Momentum.

A standard raise when there is Antes, is to not give the BB Value by calling. (especially with a good, but not monster like AQo) He is getting about 3.5-1 and  he should be calling with a wide range, even out of Pos. So by raising bigger you are commiting youself to the hand anyway. So shoving is a play that many experianced tourney players would do in this spot, i know it may seem a bit crapshooty and that you are taking away all the post flop skill by shoving, but the trouble with hands like AQ is that you miss the flop 2/3 times and you raised so small pre flop that his range is way to wide to be able to figure out what he has. he probably had trash hand to begin with and i think you priced him in anyway.

But if you really hate shoving pre, then just stick it in on the flop, whatever comes down.

AMRN:
After more thought on this since my original response, I have to agree with Will"s comments. To raise enough to prevent the BB from having the odds to call, you will commit yourself - so may as well get them in first if you"re going to play the hand at all.

You don"t really want to be playing a flop with AQ at this time - ship them in and take the blinds and antes here.  I don"t think 17xBB  is too big to be open-shoving. If you raise 2.5xBB, then c-bet another 3xBB before having to fold, you"ve seriously degraded your fold equity.

Of course, if everyone folds, then the 2.5xBB raise is masterful.... problem is that without knowing the table, you may well get a caller, and then be in a sticky spot if you miss the flop.

Shipppp

Marty719:
Im am surprised at so many ppl wanting to op-shove pre.  I know the blinds and ante"s r big and worthwhile, but I still dnt really like it.  At this stage, ppl were playing pretty tight and I dount I would have got a call from nething I was beating.  Also, it sort of means we have to ship AA/KK pre to keep the disguise (if ppl r paying attention) and thts clearly just awful and losing mega-value!

At what stack-size do the ppl who shove make it a standard raise?  

deanp27:
i am probably open shipping 10-12bbs dependant upon hand - 17 bigs is too much, esp in a live game.

Marty719:

--- Quote from: deanp27 on October 21, 2009, 09:20:10 AM ---
i am probably open shipping 10-12bbs dependant upon hand - 17 bigs is too much, esp in a live game.

--- End quote ---


Yea - I think I open-ship under 12x prob

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