Poker Forum > Strategy
IPO day 2 misplayed hand - views welcome
AMRN:
so.... say you open raise from your late position with AQo for 2.5xBB and get re-raised to 8.5xBB. What"s your line?
There"s no way you can flat call as you are totally pot committed.
Do you reraise all in - but if you do, you have to kow that he cannot fold as your stack size means he is pot committed to make the call.
So your options are to reraise all in or fold....
If you fold, you have turned AQ into a bluff, and could well be folding the best hand.
If you reraise shove, you are guaranteed a showdown and are at risk.
imo, AQo is not a hand I want to be either folding with an M of 7, but neither is it a hand I particularly want to be getting in to a showdown with for my tourney life at this stage.
By open shoving in this spot, those behind you have no opportunity to bluff you off the hand preflop, and if called to a showdown... well, you may well have ended up there anyway if you played it slower.... but by open shoving there is a huge chance here that you will take down the pot uncontested and add 24k to your stack - a 14% increase.
This is a horrible spot where your stack isn"t quite short enough for realistic shoving, but too short to play poker. I don"t think there is a right or wrong answer.
Marty719:
If sum1 3-bet shoves w/ my stack size - Im quite happy to 4-bet shove and get it it pre. I actually have no problem w/ p/f in this hand. 25k was the standard raise at this stage and ppl were really playin tight - esp w/ the money jump momentarilly! Even if I c/bet the flop and get called and shut it down....I still have 11x. Im open-shoving from this stage - but I dnt think w/ 17x. I think c/betting the flop may actually b the best approach w/ my stack size!
deanp27:
AQ is a monster at this stage so raising small is to induce weaker hands to 3bet/jam against you. Raise/folding AQ with 17bb and antes is not on my agenda
noble1:
all various lines u can take have been mentioned , fwiw i prefer to shove pre 20bb or less when the blinds and antes are a significant plus to our stack..i"m not a fan of the original line that u took as imo it is a more high variance move compared to shoving pre [villain has indicated by the turn bet he has something and rather than the call turn block bet river line u took,then maybe shoving turn would provide more FE [thus a more profitable line long term] as played u have enough behind to fold it on the river and if check/check ace high maybe good :)and u still have a good stealing stack.
look into the maths marty for shove pre,even if villain calls top 30% hands [vv doubtful]and i cant be arsed to do the maths right now sry but i think you"ll find that shoving is very +ev..
there is a thread somewhere when a apat member was playing in a ept event with a pro who kept shoving on his blind where the maths behind it is explained,needless to say the apat member [sry i cannot remember the dudes name] kept folding......
--- Quote ---I actually have no problem w/ p/f in this hand. 25k was the standard raise at this stage and ppl were really playin tight - esp w/ the money jump momentarilly! Even if I c/bet the flop and get called and shut it down....I still have 11x.
--- End quote ---
on the flip side if a 17bb stack with AQ[or ATC for that matter] will get more FE and if it does get called by whatever and u double up would not a 35bb+ stack be more beneficial in the late stages than a 11bb stack with less FE and by the sounds of it 2 bigger stacks on your left? rather than looking at this hand in isolation,look how it will affect future plays [the ole poker is a series of hands connected and people should stop looking at plays in a singular 1 situation way]
i just think that u should not dismiss the idea of shoving the 20bb ish stack size but look at times when u can implement it into your poker repertoire..
thinking about shoving,can u guys and girls remember this..i luvvv it ..
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WYoung83:
Great post Noble,and for once there is someone here who seems to know what they are talking about.
I still cant belive the ammount of players who think shoving pre is bad. Once you have raised the hand enough to not give the BB odds to call, you are now pot commited. So you may aswell be the first in vigourish anyway.
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