Poker Forum > Strategy
IPO day 2 misplayed hand - views welcome
deanp27:
--- Quote from: WYoung83 on October 30, 2009, 01:01:13 AM ---
Great post Noble,and for once there is someone here who seems to know what they are talking about.
I still cant belive the ammount of players who think shoving pre is bad. Once you have raised the hand enough to not give the BB odds to call, you are now pot commited. So you may aswell be the first in vigourish anyway.
--- End quote ---
whoa, just because someone agrees with you doesn"t mean it is the only valid point of view. Saying that someone with an alternative viewpoint doesn"t know what they are talking about is a bit arrogant, no?
shoving pre isn"t bad but just because something isn"t bad doesn"t mean it is necessarily the best way to play it. Shoving is unexploitable and majority of the time gets you the blinds and antes in the middle. However i prefer to raise hands as strong as this in the hope that someone tries to resteal with a weaker hand.
i mean what does "giving the BB odds to call" actually mean? Does that mean you will call any 3x raise or whatever out of the blinds with almost any 2 just because you have odds to call?
bigredders:
--- Quote from: deanp27 on October 30, 2009, 10:34:03 AM ---
--- Quote from: WYoung83 on October 30, 2009, 01:01:13 AM ---
Great post Noble,and for once there is someone here who seems to know what they are talking about.
I still cant belive the ammount of players who think shoving pre is bad. Once you have raised the hand enough to not give the BB odds to call, you are now pot commited. So you may aswell be the first in vigourish anyway.
--- End quote ---
whoa, just because someone agrees with you doesn"t mean it is the only valid point of view. Saying that someone with an alternative viewpoint doesn"t know what they are talking about is a bit arrogant, no?
shoving pre isn"t bad but just because something isn"t bad doesn"t mean it is necessarily the best way to play it. Shoving is unexploitable and majority of the time gets you the blinds and antes in the middle. However i prefer to raise hands as strong as this in the hope that someone tries to resteal with a weaker hand.
i mean what does "giving the BB odds to call" actually mean? Does that mean you will call any 3x raise or whatever out of the blinds with almost any 2 just because you have odds to call?
--- End quote ---
completely agree, although i dont mind shoving in this spot by just raising you can get weaker hands to shove as they think your on a steal, by shoving your getting rid of hands like ace rag kq-kj etc.
who cares if the bb calls... a big hand needs to be hit to call a shove on the flop
Marty719:
--- Quote from: deanp27 on October 30, 2009, 10:34:03 AM ---
--- Quote from: WYoung83 on October 30, 2009, 01:01:13 AM ---
Great post Noble,and for once there is someone here who seems to know what they are talking about.
I still cant belive the ammount of players who think shoving pre is bad. Once you have raised the hand enough to not give the BB odds to call, you are now pot commited. So you may aswell be the first in vigourish anyway.
--- End quote ---
whoa, just because someone agrees with you doesn"t mean it is the only valid point of view. Saying that someone with an alternative viewpoint doesn"t know what they are talking about is a bit arrogant, no?
shoving pre isn"t bad but just because something isn"t bad doesn"t mean it is necessarily the best way to play it. Shoving is unexploitable and majority of the time gets you the blinds and antes in the middle. However i prefer to raise hands as strong as this in the hope that someone tries to resteal with a weaker hand.
i mean what does "giving the BB odds to call" actually mean? Does that mean you will call any 3x raise or whatever out of the blinds with almost any 2 just because you have odds to call?
--- End quote ---
I really agree with all of this. First things first...there is no set right/wrong way to play every situation and I think its pretty arrogant to think that way. There r more expoitable ways for sure, but evry option has advantages and disadvantages.
Im still not shoving 17x pre, as dean says I want to make is 25k and have sum1 in the BB spaz-shove w/ A9. However, if I open shove, Im pretty sure they r not gng to call here. Im more than happy to get it in pre in this spot if sum1 3-bets...I just want to give them that option!
Also...for balance sakes...r we open-shoving all our hands in this spot? Surely we r losing sum value from our premium hands? I think it is a case of being unexpoitable and picking up the valuable blinds and antes vs attempting to get max value from weaker hands at a greater risk. In this spot Im trying to extract max value to accumulate a good stack and give myself a good chance at a deep run.
Marty719:
--- Quote from: WYoung83 on October 30, 2009, 01:01:13 AM ---
Great post Noble,and for once there is someone here who seems to know what they are talking about.
I still cant belive the ammount of players who think shoving pre is bad. Once you have raised the hand enough to not give the BB odds to call, you are now pot commited. So you may aswell be the first in vigourish anyway.
--- End quote ---
p.s. how much do u make it to outprice the bb if u have 25x. R u making it 4x pre w/ ur entire range?
Also, fwiw - the sentence in bold is fairly awful (I originally had a diff word in here but changed it to keep the friendly APAT environment :)).
noble1:
all the above yep yep to all the above,raising pre is ok as long as we have a plan post flop,the problem in this situation is we have a lack of reads on the sb and bb..imo it doesnt really matter which option u take be it shoving,limping or raising pre,although if it is turning into a discussion of how much we should raise then if any1 suggests anymore than 3x then i"ll disagree with them ;D
with a 17bb stack if i raised and we are 3bet then yes it should be a automatic all the chips in pre scenario,i"d do that with a stack size upto around 24bb,a stack size above this then i"ll still leave an option of folding to a 3bet..
Marty/dean what i will add to the discussion though is that shoving may induce villain to call with weaker hands as well because the shove looks weaker than a raise,,especially in cases/situations if we were to know that villain was stack size aware and knew that marty was..The only line i disagree with is the one marty actually played [sry marty :)]
limping - i only suggest this if we were to know that sb or bb were agg monkeys and at our stack size we can limp shove to a raise and still have 2ways of winning the pot..
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