Poker Forum > Strategy
STT End Game Strategy
noble1:
7 out of 10 raises getting dealt top 40% isnt a stretch jon and 3 of the showdowns dont suggest to me to put him on anything wider..If u icm it is a obv fold , plus my thoughts on A3o and how it plays against there range against this type are above ^ ...
bigredders:
i must be playing these wrong....im shoving the first hand all day long... you have an ace 3handed?!
2nd obv call.
i find that there is more value in 2 table sng"s now... nobody knows how to play them
Jon MW:
--- Quote from: noble1 on January 22, 2010, 22:04:56 PM ---
7 out of 10 raises getting dealt top 40% isnt a stretch jon and 3 of the showdowns dont suggest to me to put him on anything wider..If u icm it is a obv fold , plus my thoughts on A3o and how it plays against there range against this type are above ^ ...
--- End quote ---
It may be player dependant, but I don"t think that a player who has raised 7 out of 10 when three handed has coincidentally been dealt top 40% hands, I think he is aiming to be the first raiser as often as possible.
What is the range you"re re shoving with? Does the frequency they"re likely to be dealt add up with the blinds and antes?
--- Quote from: bigredders on January 23, 2010, 01:03:32 AM ---
...2nd obv call.
...
--- End quote ---
Although this is my generic hypothetical response, I can see that this is very very much player dependent, basically if I think the other player is "likely" to win the pot then I"ll fold pre flop.
That is more or less the same as, if I think the player will out play me post flop.
So almost never then. ::)
Jon MW:
Also, the 3 hands shown to knock players out were by definition - not when it was 3 handed, so I don"t think they"re necessarily relevant to the current situation.
And this is a turbo - blinds go up every 5 minutes. Just thought a reminder was needed in terms of the hand range to re shove. If you wait another 10 hands to show that he"s raising 7 out of 10 of those as well then you"re in a lot worse position.
noble1:
--- Quote from: Jon MW on January 23, 2010, 07:13:59 AM ---
Also, the 3 hands shown to knock players out were by definition - not when it was 3 handed, so I don"t think they"re necessarily relevant to the current situation.
And this is a turbo - blinds go up every 5 minutes. Just thought a reminder was needed in terms of the hand range to re shove. If you wait another 10 hands to show that he"s raising 7 out of 10 of those as well then you"re in a lot worse position.
--- End quote ---
generally my opinion is that in sngs players main mistakes are maybe over-valuing A-x type hands, generally shoving too wide and over-estimating there fold equity but i"ll save that debate for another day :)
You got me thinking Jon, maybe not a good thing lol .. We know the blinds are going up next to 200/400 a25 , so the reasons i question shoving A3o apart from fold equity, calling range of villain and ICM equity, is the pick up of 975 chips going to change/improve AMRN"s stategy..If villain folds and the blinds go up we have 11bb, if we fold and the blinds go up we have 9bb so are we looking for a call?, we need villain to make an incorrect assessment of AMRN"s hand range to double up.. Is it worth the risk? as i"d rather push fold correctly when the blinds go up...
If we shove then villain has odds of 1.54 to 1 so 39% to call, if he is raising a optimum range intending to call any shove by the sb or bb because he thinks they will shove incorrectly [beyond 88+ ATs+ AJo+ for sb QQ+ for bb] icm or not he is correct to call with a range of 39% and beyond [cEV+]
If we pokerstove what we think his optimum range is versus A3o this the result -
Ac3s - 46.921%
44+,A2s+,K2s+,Q5s+,J7s+,T7s+,97s+,87s,A3o+,K7o+,Q8o+,J8o+,T9o - 53.079%
put aside opinions on ICM equity and we look at hand selection versus his possible wide hand range, this is what KJo looks like when stoved -
KcJs - 51.654%
44+,A2s+,K2s+,Q5s+,J7s+,T7s+,97s+,87s,A3o+,K7o+,Q8o+,J8o+,T9o - 48.346%
when you look at possible hands which are favoured over this wide calling range [50%+] then i"d prefer A5s+ A8o+ KTs+ KTo+ 55+ if i was to look at it through my long term glasses if we are going to shove hoping to be called.
If villains calls super wide ATC he is getting the correct odds to anyway against A3o , with his stack and the fact we are ITM,the odds we are giving him then i cannot see much FE plus the extra 975 chips pick up if he folds just makes it a bad idea to shove in this situation imho.
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