Poker Forum > Strategy
Folding Kings pre flop
FlyingPig73:
Okay, if you are in the fold camp, at what chip stack would you have to have to call with at this point.
Assuming you have lost a pot, so your chips are down form 10,000, and oppo 1 still has 10,000 and moves all in.. What level of chips would you have to have to call..
Would you call with 2000, would you fold,,, would you call with 5000?
Jon MW:
The original supposition was that you had re-raised to 800.
So I would say I was "pot committed" at this stage if I had 2500 chips.
But if I had 2500 chips left, I wouldn"t have re-raised to 800, I would have re-raised all in.
kinboshi:
--- Quote from: FlyingPig73 on November 07, 2007, 18:41:30 PM ---
Okay, if you are in the fold camp, at what chip stack would you have to have to call with at this point.
Assuming you have lost a pot, so your chips are down form 10,000, and oppo 1 still has 10,000 and moves all in.. What level of chips would you have to have to call..
Would you call with 2000, would you fold,,, would you call with 5000?
--- End quote ---
It"s not so much about the absolute size of the stack, but the relative size of the stack compared to the blinds.
It"s the same as people being concerned with the average chip stick and if they match up to it mid-way through a comp. To me, it"s largely irrelevant. I"m more concerned about the size of my stack compared to the blinds and ensuring I"m maintaining the ratio as the blinds increase.
As you go through the tournament, you get to understand what sort of players are at your table - so the all-in move pre-flop might indicate a wide (or very narrow) range of hands. The lack of information very early on is what makes me fold. As biffa said - my fold might be a small mistake, but I"m looking to avoid making a huge mistake. Going out early in a tournament is either due to two monster hands colliding post-flop, or people shoving and calling pre-flop. I don"t mind going out in the first case, but will do my utmost to avoid the second (unless it"s me pushing with AA and I"m outdrawn). Why put your fate in the hands of lady luck, when you still have the opportunity to dictate it yourself?
If it"s during the first level, and I"m down to 5,000 - I"m still not worried at all. If I"m down to 2,000, it"s a little different. I"m looking to double up (as things have obviously gone badly wrong). But even then, I"d rather be dictating things and be the one pushing rather than calling.
----------
As an aside - here"s another situation where you have to consider calling all-in for your tournament life:
It"s Day 2 of the EPT event in Copenhagen. You are fairly short-stacked with 18,000 and the blinds are 600/1,200 with 100 antes.
To your immediate right is the table bully and chip leader. He"s not shy of shoving all of his chips in, especially when it"s folded round to him in the small blind.
He"s shown that he"s willing to make the push with ATC based solely on his chip stack.
So, my question is what cards do you need to make the call in the big blind when he shoves from the small blind?
Swinebag:
I"d call with AA-1010 AKs+o, AQs and maybe worse because I"d be trying to avoid being short stacked and be prepared to risk going out to do that.
This is probably incorrect though and its maybe call with AA or KK only.
kinboshi:
--- Quote from: Swinebag22 on November 08, 2007, 22:16:55 PM ---
I"d call with AA-1010 AKs+o, AQs and maybe worse because I"d be trying to avoid being short stacked and be prepared to risk going out to do that.
This is probably incorrect though and its maybe call with AA or KK only.
--- End quote ---
You"ve selected pretty much the range I had chosen as well.
When I asked this on the blondepoker forum, some said that I should be calling with a far wider range in order to double up. Others said I should do my utmost to avoid calling and and look to raise or even shove when I get the opportunity to be first or second into a pot.
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