Poker Forum > Online Poker
APAt Has lost it
cottlad:
imho antes are absolutely needed for these. 6 hrs play for a $10/200man tourney is quite ridonkulous.
H-Man81:
--- Quote from: RioRodent on November 09, 2007, 14:47:18 PM ---
--- Quote from: Jon MW on November 09, 2007, 13:59:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: RioRodent on November 09, 2007, 13:32:10 PM ---
...
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Don"t get me wrong, I"m not an advocate of short stack crapshoots. I an all in favour of having enough chips to play with. It is just my opinion that a starting stack of 250 BBs isn"t necessary... 3000 chips (150 BBs) would be plenty.
By comparison... The live national champs start with 10k chips and 25/50 blinds - 150 BBs - and appx 20 hands/level... I think most agree this an excellent structure; the regionals 3k chips - 60 BBs - appx 15 hands/level... still very playable.
Playing good poker isn"t all about waiting for big hands.
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I 100% agree with my namesake here. 3000 chips would be more than enough for the good players to rise above the fish. There would still be plenty of play with the starting stacks reduced. I fully support larger stacks/larger blind levels for irregular/big tournaments, but do we really need this level of play for tournaments that are now held twice fortnightly?
APAT:
I tend to agree that we need to revisit the structure of these events. The only difference with the PokerStars structure is the removal of antes and unfortunately we do not have an option to put them back in. However, adding an additional 1.5 to 2 hours per event does not bring value from where I am sitting. I think we need to revert back to a 4.5 to 5 hour event through reducing the starting stack or reducing the clock. Adjusting the starting stacks would be my choice. The APAT event would still offer far more play than any other $10 event currently out there, and retain the enjoyment factor.
kinboshi:
Of course, increasing the buy-in to $20 might also make the tournaments better value.
Twice I"ve cashed in these - unfortunately for me, not in the top spots (as I haven"t played well enough). So 4 hours of poker, and I"m $10 or $20 up (whatever it was). It covered my buy-in but hardly covered the 4 hours investment. Fortunately, I also play a tournament or two on PokerStars at the same time - and last night I managed to cash in the one I was playing. So my 4 hours were slightly more productive.
Des, would trying a starting stack of 4,000 chips make sense? Seeing what that does to the tournament? I guess the buy-in is going to remain at $10?
Oh, and I really want to make the top three in one of these. The medals look like fantastic card protectors!
RioRodent:
--- Quote from: Jon MW on November 09, 2007, 15:02:26 PM ---
--- Quote from: RioRodent on November 09, 2007, 14:47:18 PM ---
--- Quote from: Jon MW on November 09, 2007, 13:59:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: RioRodent on November 09, 2007, 13:32:10 PM ---
... you end up with a 6 hour tournament where the winner only gets $500 - $600.
...
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It also depends on your perspective on whether the word "only" belongs in that statement.
$500 - $600 for 6 hours work, so around £40 - £50 per hour.
Based on a 35 hour week, as a wage that would put you on an annual income of around £75k to £90k a year.
The majority of everybody I know would be more than happy with that kind of level.
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So last night"s winner is on £75+ p.a. playing poker? You think it is possible for someone to win one $10 / 200 runner MTT every day?
...
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My point was that £40 to £50 per hour seems pretty good from my point of view. Whether that"s for a days work or a years work is irrelevant.
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The point is, it is not $40 - $50 per hour at all. I doubt many people, especially amateurs, will get in the money in much over 15% of their MTTs and pobably win, at best, 1% or 2%... that $600 for winning an APAT online chanpionships has to be spread over many more hours that the 6 on the night.
--- Quote from: Jon MW on November 09, 2007, 15:02:26 PM ---
As for the antes: you have to bear in mind that I"m a convert to the cause for antes, so I"m essentially trying to restate the argument that persuaded me (ie I might get it a bit wrong - so don"t be too harsh if it doesn"t entirely "work").
But I think it means that towards the latter stages of the tournament, because there are the extra chips available from the antes this means that people will be more inclined to bet and try to get them rather than passively sit back and wait for their big hands. I think there was more to it than that - but I think the gist was it creates more action and less people trying to fold their way to the money which can unbalance the structure as well as making it last longer.
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Irrespective of how antes affect the balance of the structure (and the strategy of playing it), all other things being equal, they will shorten the tournament.
Add antes, shorten the tournament by an hour or so... increase the buy-in back to $20... and in my opinion you then have a Good Value, Well Structured tournament.
--- Quote from: APAT on November 09, 2007, 16:22:42 PM ---
.... However, adding an additional 1.5 to 2 hours per event does not bring value from where I am sitting.
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You must be sitting somewhere near me!! :D
--- Quote from: APAT on November 09, 2007, 16:22:42 PM ---
I think we need to revert back to a 4.5 to 5 hour event through reducing the starting stack or reducing the clock. Adjusting the starting stacks would be my choice. The APAT event would still offer far more play than any other $10 event currently out there, and retain the enjoyment factor.
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3000 chips gets my vote!
--- Quote from: Kinboshi on November 09, 2007, 16:46:50 PM ---
Of course, increasing the buy-in to $20 might also make the tournaments better value.
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As does this!!
How about a trial... Why not reduce the chips for the upcoming two online satellites to 3000. See how long they last, bearing in mind they will be over when down to 15-20 players, and consider any feedback from them before making any decisions about the online championship series.
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