Poker Forum > Online Poker
APAt Has lost it
phudsoni:
It is an interesting discussion. It is well known and widely accepted that there are different calibre players on different networks and in many ways this seems to be stake agnostic. I have played some great players at a $10 buy in and some awful ones at a $50 buy so in short I doubt that by lowering the entry stake you will have encouraged a whole host of "looser" players. I personally encourage more people to take up this amazing game and given the very friendly and personable nature of most of the APAT players it is a great way to experience MTT"s for the first time. If these new players happen to be making loose calls and causing bad beats then as many people have already commented on statistics will always prove that it is short term. Given that it is only £5 I really have no problem with loosing my pocket rockets to 72o - it sucks but thats Poker. Chances are that 80% of the time I am going to win these battles.
Whilst I think that the APAT tour is a fantasic Poker series I do agree with the time issues - not on the diary format but on the length of tournament. Unfortunately I played for nearly 4 hours last night and went out in 32nd spot (gutted) and whilst going out on the bubble is disappointing it is compounded further by the time taken to get there and it isnt as a result of tight poker. I think deep stack works but I question the blind limits. If they were brought down to 10 minute intervals then we reduce the game (hopefully) by 30% which turns 12pm into 10:30-11pm. So thoughts on this would be massively appreciated.
Keep it up though - with some tweaks here and there I think BlSq APAT tournaments could rival the Pokerstars year.
Jon MW:
--- Quote from: Paulie_D on November 09, 2007, 14:25:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Jon MW on November 09, 2007, 13:59:10 PM ---
...
I would say "good value" means cheap to enter for how "well structured" the tournament is.
If "well structured" doesn"t mean more chips and longer clocks what does it mean?
(you don"t need to mention antes - I"ve already got that and I agree, but what else?)
--- End quote ---
Jon, I agree with everything you say but there is another element to "Structure" and that is the Blind Levels...it"s all very well having more time and chips but if the leaps in the blind structure are huge, it turns into a shove-fest in no time.
I don"t know that the BSq levels are good or bad..but there is a 3rd element over and above the two you mention.
--- End quote ---
Thanks, it was a genuine question, I wanted to know what I was missing.
In terms of the current structure I think introducing antes would help a lot, I"m not sure there"s too much wrong with the other factors but a lot of it is a subjective judgment anyway.
RioRodent:
--- Quote from: Jon MW on November 09, 2007, 13:59:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: RioRodent on November 09, 2007, 13:32:10 PM ---
... you end up with a 6 hour tournament where the winner only gets $500 - $600.
...
--- End quote ---
It also depends on your perspective on whether the word "only" belongs in that statement.
$500 - $600 for 6 hours work, so around £40 - £50 per hour.
Based on a 35 hour week, as a wage that would put you on an annual income of around £75k to £90k a year.
The majority of everybody I know would be more than happy with that kind of level.
--- End quote ---
So last night"s winner is on £75+ p.a. playing poker? You think it is possible for someone to win one $10 / 200 runner MTT every day?
--- Quote from: Jon MW on November 09, 2007, 13:59:10 PM ---
I would say "good value" means cheap to enter for how "well structured" the tournament is.
If "well structured" doesn"t mean more chips and longer clocks what does it mean?
(you don"t need to mention antes - I"ve already got that and I agree, but what else?)
--- End quote ---
I know you shouldn"t answer a question with a question, but...
Currenlty we have a $10 + $1 buy-in tourney, with appx 200 runners... with 5000 chips and a 15 min clock it takes about 6 hrs to win about $600.
Suppose we change this to 10000 chips and it now tales 10 hrs to win the same $600... would you consider this to be a better structure?
Don"t get me wrong, I"m not an advocate of short stack crapshoots. I an all in favour of having enough chips to play with. It is just my opinion that a starting stack of 250 BBs isn"t necessary... 3000 chips (150 BBs) would be plenty.
By comparison... The live national champs start with 10k chips and 25/50 blinds - 150 BBs - and appx 20 hands/level... I think most agree this an excellent structure; the regionals 3k chips - 60 BBs - appx 15 hands/level... still very playable.
Playing good poker isn"t all about waiting for big hands.
RioRodent:
--- Quote from: Jon MW on November 09, 2007, 14:39:28 PM ---
--- Quote from: Paulie_D on November 09, 2007, 14:25:05 PM ---
--- Quote from: Jon MW on November 09, 2007, 13:59:10 PM ---
...
I would say "good value" means cheap to enter for how "well structured" the tournament is.
If "well structured" doesn"t mean more chips and longer clocks what does it mean?
(you don"t need to mention antes - I"ve already got that and I agree, but what else?)
--- End quote ---
Jon, I agree with everything you say but there is another element to "Structure" and that is the Blind Levels...it"s all very well having more time and chips but if the leaps in the blind structure are huge, it turns into a shove-fest in no time.
I don"t know that the BSq levels are good or bad..but there is a 3rd element over and above the two you mention.
--- End quote ---
Thanks, it was a genuine question, I wanted to know what I was missing.
In terms of the current structure I think introducing antes would help a lot, I"m not sure there"s too much wrong with the other factors but a lot of it is a subjective judgment anyway.
--- End quote ---
Jon,
How do think antes would help?
Jon MW:
--- Quote from: RioRodent on November 09, 2007, 14:47:18 PM ---
--- Quote from: Jon MW on November 09, 2007, 13:59:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: RioRodent on November 09, 2007, 13:32:10 PM ---
... you end up with a 6 hour tournament where the winner only gets $500 - $600.
...
--- End quote ---
It also depends on your perspective on whether the word "only" belongs in that statement.
$500 - $600 for 6 hours work, so around £40 - £50 per hour.
Based on a 35 hour week, as a wage that would put you on an annual income of around £75k to £90k a year.
The majority of everybody I know would be more than happy with that kind of level.
--- End quote ---
So last night"s winner is on £75+ p.a. playing poker? You think it is possible for someone to win one $10 / 200 runner MTT every day?
...
--- End quote ---
My point was that £40 to £50 per hour seems pretty good from my point of view. Whether that"s for a days work or a years work is irrelevant.
As for the antes: you have to bear in mind that I"m a convert to the cause for antes, so I"m essentially trying to restate the argument that persuaded me (ie I might get it a bit wrong - so don"t be too harsh if it doesn"t entirely "work").
But I think it means that towards the latter stages of the tournament, because there are the extra chips available from the antes this means that people will be more inclined to bet and try to get them rather than passively sit back and wait for their big hands. I think there was more to it than that - but I think the gist was it creates more action and less people trying to fold their way to the money which can unbalance the structure as well as making it last longer.
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