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Keeping Warm in Winter
TheSnapper:
--- Quote from: AAroddersAA on March 22, 2011, 20:44:59 PM ---
The QQ I am not sure about. You might well be right again, the raise is folding out hands I beat, but I like the three bet as I think plenty worse calls (JJ, 10-10 etc), I just don"t think it raises. For example a hand like 10-10 or 9-9 might call and get married to the hand on a low flop.
--- End quote ---
It really depends on villains ranges. If he"s tight in ep......
Versus a range of 99+,AJs+,KQs,AKo, QQ does well with ~58% equity.
But think about how your hand does when you isolate versus only the part of his range that does"nt fold to your 3bet, again though, you need to consider how he will react so you can best decide whether or not 3betting is correct.
That you dont include reads maybe suggests room for improvement in that dept???
--- Quote from: AAroddersAA ---
Also if I flat and the flop comes Jack high, I still have to call or raise a c-bet and end up making things really complicated don"t I?
If you just flat call in position and the flop comes Jack high how do you play the flop? Are you raising or calling the flop bet.
What if it comes King high?
--- End quote ---
If you flat you play poker ip and get more info on each street and strive to make better decisions than your opponent. By paying close attention to your opponents tendancies you can best recognise what his actions mean and read him better than he reads you.
I suspect from your post that you dont use PT or HM, when you consider almost all your opponents will use these tools, you are definately taking the worst of it before you even start.
--- Quote from: AAroddersAA ---
By three betting I have his range more defined and if he flats me he ALMOST never has AA or KK. *****I think the 3-bet loses less to AA and KK and wins more from JJ and 10-10. OK I might get pushed off by AK or JJ every now and again but still think this is most profitable against an online random. I can see the advantages in flat calling though.
--- End quote ---
Some default assumptions in there tbh Steve, some flat with AA & KK at least some of the time imho. My experience is that AK is the one hand they are least likely to flat with and more likely to 4bet jam.
*****This is seriously flawed thinking Steve
Say he raises a range of 99+,AJs+,KQs,AKo from ep and folds 50% to your 3bet.
QQ versus.........
99+,AJs+,KQs,AKo.... has ~58%
QQ+,AKs,AKo...... has ~40%
AAroddersAA:
--- Quote from: TheSnapper on March 22, 2011, 21:58:58 PM ---
--- Quote from: AAroddersAA on March 22, 2011, 20:44:59 PM ---
The QQ I am not sure about. You might well be right again, the raise is folding out hands I beat, but I like the three bet as I think plenty worse calls (JJ, 10-10 etc), I just don"t think it raises. For example a hand like 10-10 or 9-9 might call and get married to the hand on a low flop.
--- End quote ---
It really depends on villains ranges. If he"s tight in ep......
Versus a range of 99+,AJs+,KQs,AKo, QQ does well with ~58% equity.
But think about how your hand does when you isolate versus only the part of his range that does"nt fold to your 3bet, again though, you need to consider how he will react so you can best decide whether or not 3betting is correct.
That you dont include reads maybe suggests room for improvement in that dept???
--- Quote from: AAroddersAA ---
Also if I flat and the flop comes Jack high, I still have to call or raise a c-bet and end up making things really complicated don"t I?
If you just flat call in position and the flop comes Jack high how do you play the flop? Are you raising or calling the flop bet.
What if it comes King high?
--- End quote ---
If you flat you play poker ip and get more info on each street and strive to make better decisions than your opponent. By paying close attention to your opponents tendancies you can best recognise what his actions mean and read him better than he reads you.
I suspect from your post that you dont use PT or HM, when you consider almost all your opponents will use these tools, you are definately taking the worst of it before you even start.
--- Quote from: AAroddersAA ---
By three betting I have his range more defined and if he flats me he ALMOST never has AA or KK. *****I think the 3-bet loses less to AA and KK and wins more from JJ and 10-10. OK I might get pushed off by AK or JJ every now and again but still think this is most profitable against an online random. I can see the advantages in flat calling though.
--- End quote ---
Some default assumptions in there tbh Steve, some flat with AA & KK at least some of the time imho. My experience is that AK is the one hand they are least likely to flat with and more likely to 4bet jam.
*****This is seriously flawed thinking Steve
Say he raises a range of 99+,AJs+,KQs,AKo from ep and folds 50% to your 3bet.
QQ versus.........
99+,AJs+,KQs,AKo.... has ~58%
QQ+,AKs,AKo...... has ~40%
--- End quote ---
You hand anaysis is great as always Brendan.
I will respond to this tomorrow though, as it"s an interesting one, I can see all of your points but don"t 100% agree with them all. This might be one we need to have a beer at an event and discuss though :-)
As for Poker Tracker, of course I have it. It just doesn"t work on Sky Poker, neither does holdem Manager. You have to do it the old fashioned way with player notes, I only keep them on the regs though and this player was not somebody I had noticed before. So yes, I am having to make this decision without a lot of the information that would normally be available. Does that change it? Do you really include 99 and AJs in his 4-Bet shoving range here.
I will check my hands from "Stars in PT tomorrow actually and try to work out if it is profitable to call with QQ in this spot.
Also QQ has to be a three bet here unless it is very opponent dependant. Doesn"t it?
AAroddersAA:
Good day today, sorted my holidays for Vegas so time to get the flight booked.
I am again going to do a quick hour long session tonight and see how it goes. Will come back to my QQ hand later.
AAroddersAA:
OK, played a session and ended up being £1.50 down. A couple of hands worth posting the first one was when I called a min raise with 44. The flop came down 4-5-J and the original raiser bets out 10p into the pot of around 60p. I decide this looks pretty weak and so I call hoping that the player behind will raise but he jus calls. The turn comes a 2. The bets another 10p I decide I may as well pull the trigger now and raise it to £1 not really expecting any action, the OR then shoves, I call and he shows A-3 for the turned straight. I think I played that badly as if he has missed the flop he is unlikely to pay me any more on the turn so the best play would have been to make a proper bet on the lfop.
I then get dealt AK on the button and pop it up to 70p when the whole table limps in. I get three caller and the flop comes down.
Ks-Jc-7c
There is a check then the middle position player bets £1.50 into a pot of around £3. There is now £4.50 in the pot and I have £7.50 back. I raise it up to £7 and one of the players behind calls allin. Everybody else folds and he misses his flush draw.
One more interesting hand to say about. I get dealy JJ and a regular player (who is generally quite passive) raises it up to 40p. In early position, I know his range for doing this to be quite wide. so I flat call with JJ. The flop comes down:-
8h-4c-6s
He checks over to me, I now reckon my hand is good so bet 65p into the pot of £0.95, he calls. The turn brings a Qh. He checks to me and I check as well my thinking being that now the queen is out I shoudn"t really get called by too much that I beat. The river card was 7h and completes an unlikely flush. He bets £1.13 into the pot to £2.20 and I call. He shows Aces. This hand is interesting compared to the one Brendan and me were discussing last night. Lets say I played it as I did last night, the way it probably goes is he makes it 40p. I make it £1.40 and he most likely reraises making me fold preflop. So that would have cost me £1.40. In this case the hand costs me £2.08 but I actually get to show down and there is an arguement that my river call is bad. Definately see the point in the just call and play the hand in position but I remain unconvinced long term tbh. Going to try this tactic again though.
Might play the Blonde league tournament tonight as well. Why not join in - it"s the take on Tikay at 8:30pm on Sky Poker.
technolog:
--- Quote from: AAroddersAA on March 23, 2011, 19:36:59 PM ---
Might play the Blonde league tournament tonight as well. Why not join in - it"s the take on Tikay at 8:30pm on Sky Poker.
--- End quote ---
Okay Steve. I bloody well will!
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