Poker Forum > Strategy
TT in SB facing CO ai and btn call
Marty719:
--- Quote from: GarethC on January 18, 2011, 21:14:17 PM ---
Since it"s all been done before let"s not go into the ranges and the chip EV calculations, it"s fairly obvious that this will be a +cEV call. In terms of whether it should be a fold despite calling being +cEV, I think not, since there"s not much point laddering from here, and losing the pot doesn"t vastly compromise your position or your $EV. Given the other stacks and the blinds, it will still be all to play for. Winning the pot puts you in an excellent position. Got to be a call.
--- End quote ---
Pretty much all this^^^esp with added value up top
Swinebag:
I"m pretty sure there are numbers to be crunched here and an ICM calculation will say "fold" or "call". My gut says it will be close.
ICM doesn"t really come into this here because you don"t get into this spot enough times for the correct decision to benefit you in the long run.
However I quickly stoved
any pair, AT+ and KQ for C/o
88+ AT+ KJ+ for btn
and TT had about 37% equity (If I was sat down I"d have imagined about 40% to be honest)
This is enough for me to call off 40% of my stack to risk getting into the medals with approx 70% of the chips in play and so much up top for winning.
But I think you just have to make these calls at the end of a tourney with shallow stacks if you are shooting for the win. I"d struggle to imagine better spots that would crop up.
These stacks dont allow for much 3 bet bluffing so you need to pick up hands and get them to hold. TT does the trick here for me
GarethC:
--- Quote from: TheSnapper on January 18, 2011, 21:30:30 PM ---
Is it a +cEV spot ?
--- End quote ---
Yes.. trust me. :P
This was the ICM perspective:
"...there"s not much point laddering from here, and losing the pot doesn"t vastly compromise your position or your $EV."
That"s about as far as my ICM insight goes. I don"t have any program that can do the calculation and work out the actual numbers, and doing it by hand would take ridiculously long. Luckily it"s not really needed in this spot. It"s more useful for spots where you"re looking at calling off a large number of chips in a situation where it may be better to hold on until some of the smaller stacks have busted, since calling and losing would drastically reduce your $EV in the tournament and consequently vastly increase theirs, which is a disaster, while winning the pot doesn"t vastly increase the $EV you already have.
It appears to me that that"s not the case here. The stacks are all very close together, relative to the blinds/antes, and losing this pot just puts you back with the pack, where you still have almost the same $EV as the other similar stacks. Whoever wins the pot will have more, but the other stacks don"t gain much. While winning the pot shoots you to much higher $EV position.
TheSnapper:
--- Quote from: Swinebag22 on January 18, 2011, 22:12:13 PM ---
I"m pretty sure there are numbers to be crunched here and an ICM calculation will say "fold" or "call". My gut says it will be close.
ICM doesn"t really come into this here because you don"t get into this spot enough times for the correct decision to benefit you in the long run.
However I quickly stoved
any pair, AT+ and KQ for C/o
88+ AT+ KJ+ for btn
and TT had about 37% equity (If I was sat down I"d have imagined about 40% to be honest)
This is enough for me to call off 40% of my stack to risk getting into the medals with approx 70% of the chips in play and so much up top for winning.
But I think you just have to make these calls at the end of a tourney with shallow stacks if you are shooting for the win. I"d struggle to imagine better spots that would crop up.
These stacks dont allow for much 3 bet bluffing so you need to pick up hands and get them to hold. TT does the trick here for me
--- End quote ---
You give a wider range for the tight btn to call ai than I would Rob, I was thinking something like TT+,AQs+,AQo+
Chipaccrual:
I"m calling all day long here. For a number of reasons :-
1) The Spaniards would make the call, and they are European and World Champions, so they know what they are doing.
2) The payout structure is set to go for the win.
3) I know Brendan"s view on this hand. ;)
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