Poker Forum > Strategy
Player interfering?
PantsMan:
Huge difference between saying "I have to call" and putting in 1500 chips and accidentally dropping a single chip over!
I don"t believe it in misinterpreting the rule. It"s all down to interpretation of what is "obvious". If i say raise and throw in 3 blue chips instead of 3 purple chips i can claim it"s "obvious" i meant to throw in the purples (worth less) once i"ve got a read that my opponent is going to call. Basically a kind of reverse string bet. An elastic bet? :)
Do APAT actually use RROP? I was told they used individual casino rules? Not saying they shouldn"t, just interested. Particularly as rule 12 seems far too wide open to interpretation to me to be a good rule in poker.
Paulie_D:
--- Quote from: PantsMan on February 02, 2011, 17:03:48 PM ---
Huge difference between saying "I have to call" and putting in 1500 chips and accidentally dropping a single chip over!
I don"t believe it in misinterpreting the rule. It"s all down to interpretation of what is "obvious". If i say raise and throw in 3 blue chips instead of 3 purple chips i can claim it"s "obvious" i meant to throw in the purples (worth less) once i"ve got a read that my opponent is going to call. Basically a kind of reverse string bet. An elastic bet? :)
Do APAT actually use RROP? I was told they used individual casino rules? Not saying they shouldn"t, just interested. Particularly as rule 12 seems far too wide open to interpretation to me to be a good rule in poker.
--- End quote ---
and..."I have to call 1500" is not the same as "I have to call 15000".
I get your point about a reverse string bet but, in general, the rule is applied to calls more than raises but I would argue that if you are INITIATING action by a bet or a raise then your bet is binding regardless. I think everyone would agree to that.
No, APAT don"t use RRoP...they use their own, (not individual casinos) but the APAT rules don"t cover all eventualities,,,nobodies does...but RRoP is a decent basis for discussion.
PantsMan:
--- Quote ---and..."I have to call 1500" is not the same as "I have to call 15000".
--- End quote ---
Agreed, but he didn"t say "I have to call 1500". From the initial post, he said "I have to call" and then put his chips in. If that doesn"t count as a call then i don"t know what does.
--- Quote ---I get your point about a reverse string bet but, in general, the rule is applied to calls more than raises but I would argue that if you are INITIATING action by a bet or a raise then your bet is binding regardless. I think everyone would agree to that.
--- End quote ---
I"d agree to that but the rule you quoted doesn"t, it says a call or raise.
"A "call" or "raise" may be ruled not binding if it is obvious that the player grossly misunderstood the amount wagered, provided no damage has been caused by that action"
--- Quote ---No, APAT don"t use RRoP...they use their own, (not individual casinos) but the APAT rules don"t cover all eventualities,,,nobodies does...but RRoP is a decent basis for discussion.
--- End quote ---
Out of interest what does the APAT rule state? I"d always been led to believe it was individual casino rules. If APAT has it"s own are they on the site?
Paulie_D:
He said "I have to call" and put some chips in the pot....that"s what this rule was made for.
RRoP (see here)tries to be as broad and yet as specific as possible and we could go round and round about what"s a call and what isn"t.
Deliberately putting chips in the pot, to my mind, commits ONLY those chips in this situation, as I said, I would have given him the option of losing the 1500 and folding or calling the whole 15k.
Is this open to abuse....absolutely...it"s a possible angle-shot (see 2+2) and should be stamped on hard if that"s the way it appears but it certainly seems to me that the player here did NOT understand the amount he had to call and should be given some flexibility.
Or not...each to their own. The player didn"t help himself by protecting his action/hand by clearly understanding the whole scenario.
On the APAT's rules front...there is nothing specific on point but they can be found from the home page or by clicking HERE.
AMRN:
--- Quote from: PantsMan on February 03, 2011, 10:54:03 AM ---
--- Quote ---and..."I have to call 1500" is not the same as "I have to call 15000".
--- End quote ---
Agreed, but he didn"t say "I have to call 1500". From the initial post, he said "I have to call" and then put his chips in. If that doesn"t count as a call then i don"t know what does.
--- End quote ---
As I heard it quoted on the day... the actual wording was perhaps along the lines of...
Player - "How much?"
Dealer - "15 more"
Player - "for 15 I have to call" and he threw in 1500.
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