Poker Forum > Strategy

River Value Shove vs unknown

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noble1:
say he tank called a set of 3"s marty, imo random villains will rr on the turn, so his river line looks in the main 1 pair kings, maybe a set of 6"s or a flush [he could be multi tabling, nipped to the toilet etc  :)]

given your position and the king of spades xx texture, would he not expect u to check behind alot here with your spade draw range?
the river rr is so large then occasionally u met get someone to spazz and call with KQ KJ etc, i wouldnt bank on it being a profitable line though versus a random  :)

Swinebag:
I probably just call here - can"t think of too many hands that are calling that shove and losing.

He is surely check calling again with his King hands.

There are a lot of flush and straight draw combos that call turn and either get there or don"t on the river and will vb/bluff the river. Either way the shove doesn"t achieve much.


Swinebag:

--- Quote from: Marty719 on March 07, 2011, 17:11:52 PM ---
fwiw - I find a lot of the time, ppl click call pretty quick with good draws.

--- End quote ---


This is a good point. But player is priced out on the turn and may be thinking of other ways to win the pot with all the bluff outs that he can rep

Marty719:

--- Quote from: noble1 on March 07, 2011, 17:55:08 PM ---
say he tank called a set of 3"s marty, imo random villains will rr on the turn, so his river line looks in the main 1 pair kings, maybe a set of 6"s or a flush [he could be multi tabling, nipped to the toilet etc  :)]

given your position and the king of spades xx texture, would he not expect u to check behind alot here with your spade draw range?
the river rr is so large then occasionally u met get someone to spazz and call with KQ KJ etc, i wouldnt bank on it being a profitable line though versus a random  :)

--- End quote ---


I dnt think I check behind my spade draws as a default.  I still check back some amount of the time, but I think Kxx flops are definately ones that I will c/b the majority of the time.  Surprised no-one has mentioned his river bet-sizing which I think is pretty key!!  He bets 800 into 2675.  Do we assume the average $33 stars player is capable of taking this line to induce.  I think its more likely he is trying to get a cheap showdown w/ a medium hand w/ sdv.  I really dnt think he has many flushes in his range when he tank calls flop and bets 1/3rd pot otr.

AMRN:

--- Quote from: Marty719 on March 08, 2011, 07:35:31 AM ---
I dnt think I check behind my spade draws as a default.  I still check back some amount of the time, but I think Kxx flops are definately ones that I will c/b the majority of the time.  Surprised no-one has mentioned his river bet-sizing which I think is pretty key!!  He bets 800 into 2675.  Do we assume the average $33 stars player is capable of taking this line to induce.  I think its more likely he is trying to get a cheap showdown w/ a medium hand w/ sdv.  I really dnt think he has many flushes in his range when he tank calls flop and bets 1/3rd pot otr.

--- End quote ---


So then I ask again - what are you hoping for when you shove? If you think he has a medium strength hand, he"s unlikely to call a shove. So I go back to my original point - all the shove will achieve will be a fold from his worse hands and a call from his better hands.  If you think he has a medium strength hand, surely a callable value bet is in order?

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