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QQ in a 5-bet pot in a cash game

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Marty719:
His range widens when you consider Steve"s pre-flop actions.  He can 5b with the lower-middle section of his 3b range if he thinks he has fold equity.  Steves 4b sizing certainly lowers perceived f/e which is not what we want, but his pf actions will certainly widen it in somewhat.

I"m certainly not in love with just getting it in here, but I think the fact that we are getting the right price against a tight range that may actually be wider than we need means that we have to imo.

TheSnapper:

--- Quote from: Marty719 on July 09, 2011, 17:54:52 PM ---

His range widens when you consider Steve"s pre-flop actions.  He can 5b with the lower-middle section of his 3b range if he thinks he has fold equity. Steves 4b sizing certainly lowers perceived f/e which is not what we want, but his pf actions will certainly widen it in somewhat.

I"m certainly not in love with just getting it in here, but I think the fact that we are getting the right price against a tight range that may actually be wider than we need means that we have to imo.


--- End quote ---


5 bet bluff @ 50nl, I"m not convinced Marty think its a level of thinking beyond what"s useful at these stakes, we don"t have a 3b"ing war dynamic to hint at that being possible here either.

Fully agree that villains 3 bet range is super wide but my experience is that an 18/18/6 140 bb"s deep will never pass this particular commitment threshold lite, which will quickly overrule any weakness perceived from Steves flat call. Sure! anything is possible as a once of spew, just unlikely imo.

noble1:
rather than look at the final result of your actions, work out how u got to this situation..
eg - u flatted the utg raise with a plan, 4 players behind, was u prepared to 4bet any of the villains or did the 3bet come from the one player that u didn"t want to particularly get jiggy with?
if so then why consider 4bet fold? if u thought beforehand that u didn"t fancy playing him oop but u could still profit from 4betting him but that his 5bet range would be super narrow then why not 4bet less?
did u consider moving tables? did u assess your table position/edge correctly.. think back, did ego take over, did u just fall into the trap of auto-piloting?
why not 3bet pre and keep it simple?

just some thoughts that come to mind that imho u should focus on rather than just should i call villains 5bet shove..
so think back i think u"ll learn more if u analyse your mind set at the time...

deanp27:
I think villains range is widened by Heros preflop line looking FOS with a smaller pocket pair, especially given the rather large 4bet sizing. I really don"t like 4bet folding queens in this spot

AMRN:
Thanks for all the comments - some food for thought.

So - it played out thus...

I flat called with every intention of 4-betting. The way the table was playing, a raise and a call was going to be 3-bet by someone (anyone) probably 100% of the time. It didn"t matter where the 3-bet came from, I was planning to 4-bet.  My 4-bet was over-sized, and as I said earlier, this was probably due to the laziness of using the auto-sizing buttons (think I probably clicked Pot, then cranked it back a notch).

When the guy 5-bet shoved, I kinda knew I was beat, but didn"t have it in me to fold having come this far. I used all the clock before making a pretty sour call - he had AA.

I think that having played it slow initially, I had hidden the value of my hand somewhat, and the reality is that having played it that way, it would be daft to fold now and miss out on value from hands such as AK, JJ, TT, that were attacking the perceived weakness of my flat call.

If I had 3-bet pre, assuming the guy with AA then 4-bets..... the hand probably reaches the same conclusion. The table had been so aggro, that I wouldn"t have thought twice about 5-bet shoving myself.

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