Author Topic: APAT Staking Exchange - Discussion  (Read 59695 times)

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Fatcatstu

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Re: APAT Staking Board
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2012, 22:43:53 PM »
Sounds like a great idea to me. As mentioned, I think it would police itself. The people involved would most likely be APAT regulars and people well known, do nothing untoward would go on
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AceOnTheRiver

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Re: APAT Staking Board
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2012, 22:47:56 PM »

I would have thought that the level of community within APAT, and the fmailiarity of many posters to each other, would make staking a good thing to have on here, if set up correctly


This is the key for me. Lots of APATers do this on FB already and it"s great for the sweat.

Think this is a good idea.
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Paulie_D

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Re: APAT Staking Board
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2012, 05:52:33 AM »

Good feedback thus far, thanks.

Paulie - presume your point is to ensure the staker and the stakee do not play the same event?


Indeed, if you have staked someone into an APAT event then that might affect your play at the table and ugly words tend to get thrown about when that happens.

I don"t have an issue, per se, with two players in the same tournament swapping percentages as a way to reduce the variance however.

The idea of someone being staked into an APAT event by a non-player with a view to making a profit smacks too much of professionalism for me for something that is mean to be founded for amateurs.

On selling back pieces of an award seat, I thought that the idea was that the seat was entry into an event that you might not otherwise have been able to afford....not to make commercialise the win...after all, it cost the winner effectively nothing  and selling pieces, to me, is like selling an APAT seat over market value.

As always, my opinions are my own and others may, do and undoubtedly, will disagree.

« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 06:09:16 AM by Paulie_D »
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RioRodent

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Re: APAT Staking Board
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2012, 08:26:06 AM »


Good feedback thus far, thanks.

Paulie - presume your point is to ensure the staker and the stakee do not play the same event?


Indeed, if you have staked someone into an APAT event then that might affect your play at the table and ugly words tend to get thrown about when that happens.

I don"t have an issue, per se, with two players in the same tournament swapping percentages as a way to reduce the variance however.

The idea of someone being staked into an APAT event by a non-player with a view to making a profit smacks too much of professionalism for me for something that is mean to be founded for amateurs.

On selling back pieces of an award seat, I thought that the idea was that the seat was entry into an event that you might not otherwise have been able to afford....not to make commercialise the win...after all, it cost the winner effectively nothing  and selling pieces, to me, is like selling an APAT seat over market value.

As always, my opinions are my own and others may, do and undoubtedly, will disagree.




No Staking By Non-Player (Professionalism) + No Staking By Player In Same Tourney (Fear Of Collusion) = No Staking

I know of at least one APAT staking package sold on blonde a couple of years ago... most likely all to non-APAT players. Selling via the APAT forum would ensure that backers are pretty much all APAT players, thus negating the "professionally backed" fear;

and as has been mentioned, there are numerous people that swap percentages of each other in APAT events... this has always happened and will continue to do so. Player A swapping 10% with Player B is exactly the same as Player A selling 10% to Player B and Player B selling 10% to Player A.

As for not subsequently selling pieces of added value seats won... it can be argued that any backers in the original tournament should also have the same percentage of anything won in the prize tournament, although this doesn"t have to be the case - This is something that needs to clarified in any staking proposal. It is also common practice for people to sell action in tournaments that they have satellited into, and indeed to attempt to satellite into tournaments that they have already sold action in. If I win a seat into a tournament I can see no problem in selling pieces to help cover the cost of travel and hotel expenses.

It just cannot be policed/prevented and there is absolutely no need to try to.



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AMRN

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Re: APAT Staking Board
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2012, 09:10:14 AM »


It just cannot be policed/prevented and there is absolutely no need to try to.



^This.    Recognise that swapping and staking already happens offline within the APAT community, and probably in relation to some specific APAT tournaments - by creating the APAT staking area, all we would do is formalise what already happens, and extend it is an opportunity to others.

mporter123

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Re: APAT Staking Board
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2012, 10:55:35 AM »
I think its a really good idea and would add a different aspect to the forum.

I personally don"t use Facebook a lot but would like the opportunity to buy pieces in players and potentially sell some of my own action from time to time. Having a space on the forum to accommodate that would be great.

bhoywonder70

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Re: APAT Staking Board
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2012, 12:27:41 PM »
Then there is the question of markups...?.....
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Paulie_D

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Re: APAT Staking Board
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2012, 12:33:55 PM »

Then there is the question of markups...?.....


True. However, I must hold my hand up to perhaps dragging this off-topic a little.

The issue Des raised was "Should APAT have a staking board?"

I have little interest either way as I am neither good enough to get staked or rich enough to do any staking.

Perhaps we can leave the specifics of how the staking would work to another thread when Des gets his answer or am I dragging this off-topic again?

Overall, my answer would be "YES" because it will, IMO, enhance the forum and potentially drive new visitors and/or membership.
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bhoywonder70

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Re: APAT Staking Board
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2012, 12:40:44 PM »


Then there is the question of markups...?.....


True. However, I must hold my hand up to perhaps dragging this off-topic a little.

The issue Des raised was "Should APAT have a staking board?"

I have little interest either way as I am neither good enough to get staked or rich enough to do any staking.

Perhaps we can leave the specifics of how the staking would work to another thread when Des gets his answer or am I dragging this off-topic again?

Overall, my answer would be "YES" because it will, IMO, enhance the forum and potentially drive new visitors and/or membership.



Agreed....

Getting way ahead...

I"m all for staking....on a small scale personally...I can only attend a few per year..so yup...great idea
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mporter123

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Re: APAT Staking Board
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2012, 12:47:56 PM »

Then there is the question of markups...?.....


Supply and demand will look after this. If someone selling action thinks they are worth a markup then they can charge whatever they like. If buyers think they warrant the markup then they will buy - if not they won"t.


waltypies

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Re: APAT Staking Board
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2012, 12:51:43 PM »
All people should be staked via BANK TRANSFER only.  By doing this if there is a problem you have more rights.  If done via stars etc you do not have a leg to stand on.

PHIL_TC

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Re: APAT Staking Board
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2012, 12:52:28 PM »
Sounds like a good idea to me


Excellent idea, and helps take APAT forward and retain market currency.

The community spirit around APAT is immense, and for that reason, policing the process will simple - in fact, it suspect it would almost police itself within the membership.

It may also act as a way of bringing new members to the fold - either people who play APAT events, but don"t use the forum, or totally new membership.


^^ this

As per tighty"s post split the boards into live and online.

Due to not being able to play much this year it would be great to have some sweats on other APAT players in events.

Would need a template knocking up that people could follow which would remove any ambiguity upon binkage. The last thing that we would want to see is people falling out over added seat wins, buying back action, markups etc. If the template is easy to use then I can see this being a winner.
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bhoywonder70

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Re: APAT Staking Board
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2012, 12:54:20 PM »


Then there is the question of markups...?.....


Supply and demand will look after this. If someone selling action thinks they are worth a markup then they can charge whatever they like. If buyers think they warrant the markup then they will buy - if not they won"t.




Again getting way ahead.I was thinking of some kind of uniformity to keep in line with the apat ethos...

But for another time that debate
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mporter123

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Re: APAT Staking Board
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2012, 13:12:49 PM »

All people should be staked via BANK TRANSFER only.  By doing this if there is a problem you have more rights.  If done via stars etc you do not have a leg to stand on.


Disagree with this. If you are concerned then you can make it clear in the stake that you will only accept bank transfer.


Then there is the question of markups...?.....

Again getting way ahead.I was thinking of some kind of uniformity to keep in line with the apat ethos...

But for another time that debate


Uniformity in staking appears to be difficult. I think the idea is APAT provide an area on the forum to stake players / get staked rather than actually deciding the rules each stake must follow (except obvious groundrules).

Paulie_D

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Re: APAT Staking Board
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2012, 13:17:19 PM »
Again, we"re getting away from the question that Des asked.

Once the thread comes into existence would be the time (or perhaps just before) to discuss templates / procedures / markups and other explanations.

I have no doubt that, as per blonde, there will be a General Guidance & Information post at the top of the boards.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 13:26:35 PM by Des »
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