Poker Forum > Strategy
Pretty Common Spot, best way to play it?
TheSnapper:
Pondering a suitable response reminded me of our local live tourney field, at one time shallow final table calling ranges were ridiculously tight and you could push 5 bb"s 4-5 times in a row and take a comfortable chiplead. I remember shoving for 11 bb"s with rags and getting a show fold from the BB with AQo, as he "couldnt understand the huge bet" of ~25k.
What range can we profitably shove is hugely dependent on the limpers calling ranges. Not saying it"s the case with Steve but lots of players become over reliant on their hud stats and miss some obvious helpful reads.
In this spot it looks like we have played ~120 hands with both limpers,
wingnut16 (17643 in chips) Hands: 133 VP$IP: 33 PFR: 11 : Small sample but vpip and pfr merge pretty quickly so (assuming they are hands from this tourney and hence early game deepstack play) stats would suggest he"s either a really bad player who limps too much or a decent player seeing lots of flops playing pots ip versus weak opponents and trying to build a stack. Paying close attention will help you easily know which category villain falls into and how likely he is to fold to a ~11 bb jam.
sbj1000 (9458 in chips) Hands: 116 VP$IP: 14 PFR: 12 : Tight aggressive stats mostly choosing to come in for a raise, why not iso raise the early limper? is there an aggro dynamic at the table where over limp trapping with a monster might be correct? Is the player capable of noticing?
deanp27:
Shoving wide here seems like spew so I am shoving a value range only, probably 66+ a9+ kj+
AMRN:
--- Quote from: dwh103 on June 29, 2012, 10:37:43 AM ---
--- Quote from: Paulie_D on June 29, 2012, 10:26:01 AM ---
--- Quote from: mporter123 on June 29, 2012, 10:19:16 AM ---
Steve - why no Ace Rag?
--- End quote ---
My guess is that he feels that with two limpers in front, any call of our Ax is likely to have us dominated.
--- End quote ---
It"d be a really unusual range if equity for A2o is lower than 87 suited. Almost always better to get it in with Ax.
--- End quote ---
If we shove 87s, we are far more likely to have live cards if called.... someone who has limped a hand that dominates 87 (perhaps 89, T8, etc) is far less likely to call than someone who has limped Ax. In my experience in these low buy in tourneys, a limper with Ax is never ever ever folding to a 10x shove from the blinds..... with so many limpers before us, one of them is likely to have Ax, meaning a shove with A2o is going to be crushed a lot of the time.
TheSnapper:
I suspect our equity when called accounts for so little of our total EV that the merits of 87 over A2 is moot. Especially so when you consider the card removal benefit of Ax type hands.
dwh103:
--- Quote from: AMRN on June 29, 2012, 15:17:17 PM ---
--- Quote from: dwh103 on June 29, 2012, 10:37:43 AM ---
--- Quote from: Paulie_D on June 29, 2012, 10:26:01 AM ---
--- Quote from: mporter123 on June 29, 2012, 10:19:16 AM ---
Steve - why no Ace Rag?
--- End quote ---
My guess is that he feels that with two limpers in front, any call of our Ax is likely to have us dominated.
--- End quote ---
It"d be a really unusual range if equity for A2o is lower than 87 suited. Almost always better to get it in with Ax.
--- End quote ---
If we shove 87s, we are far more likely to have live cards if called.... someone who has limped a hand that dominates 87 (perhaps 89, T8, etc) is far less likely to call than someone who has limped Ax. In my experience in these low buy in tourneys, a limper with Ax is never ever ever folding to a 10x shove from the blinds..... with so many limpers before us, one of them is likely to have Ax, meaning a shove with A2o is going to be crushed a lot of the time.
--- End quote ---
What limp-call range would you give them?
If they only call with better Ax and pairs then yes, 87s has greater equity. But as soon as you add even a few broadway hands like KJ etc, Ax increases in value massively as it you can actually end up getting it in ahead. Although you"re "live" with 87s more often you"re still almost guaranteed 30%+ equity with Ax, so you"re never in too bad shape.
For a range of 88-22 and A2+. A2o has 37.68% equity vs 44.46% equity. Adding 3/4 other hands sees it swing in A2o"s favour, so if you think they"re calling with KQ, KJ, KT, QJ etc then it"s a little better to have the Ace.
They"re probably folding anyway, so who cares what you have? ;)
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version