Poker Forum > Strategy

Tricky turn spot, or is it ?

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Swinebag:
Lol nice brag at the end :)

But this hand was a complete mess. My lack of faith in stats is well documented and I probably wouldn"t need stats to tag this player as LAG but with 28/25 over a big sample you can confidently 4 bet ship this with your stack size. Peeling is not too terrible but I would certainly have a plan before doing this.

It seems you didn"t have too much of a plan when you cr the flop because you have now put over a third of your stack in and are now puzzled what to do ott.

Fwiw you didn"t compound your error and play the "pot committed" card and do your stack in ott. I may have done that but would have struggled to get into that spot in the first place. As mark says, you are pretty well beat now. It is just a shame that you lost such a chunk finding out.

The advantage of 4b shipping here is that you can pick up a nice pot with minimal risk as villain will fold a fair chunk of his 3b range and maybe depending on your image 99. If villain is competent and running over the table, he shouldn"t be too bothered about playing big pots so will give you the pot most of the time. But with it being 5 handed you need to ship this for value as 88 is massive here. When you call and take the line you did, you lose the initiative and let yourself get bluffed by worse hands on the many unfavourable flops that will land.

Well done OTW

Vwp.

noble1:

--- Quote ---Easy fold, call again or give up.
--- End quote ---

I think you have to x/f on this turn, especially if you don't believe ChasingWraps checks back the river enough with hands that you beat, and that you think you can't call a river bet if he makes one.


--- Quote ---His 3 bet pre indicates strength to me here basically clicking it back, don"t think he is doing it with 77 and below so got to be aware I am all already beaten so 99+ definitely in his range, think he may flat 99, 1010 even Jacks, table has been pretty tight, if he has Ak, Aq, think he 3 bets more pre.

After he leads my check, I am not scared of an over card the reason I reraise is to see if my initial thoughts are correct ie an over pair probably QQ+, hard for AK, AQ to continue because I am showing strength, I know some people won"t fold Ak, AQ in this spot but I didn"t think in this situation he is chasing the over card.
--- End quote ---

Firstly i tip my hat to you sir, i do like an individual who"s not afraid to try what is unconventional and who will sometimes make mistakes.
Given the above reads donk leading must of been an option? [all on villains tendencies and how he viewed yourself etc etc]
If you had a read or an inkling that he might cbet his whole 3bet range when you check to him but give up a lot on the turn then check call.........


arguments against 4bet pre for me are - if the players we are re-jamming on have some glaring post-flop leaks then don"t do it... :)
for me you should always ask yourself what edges do you put at risk by jamming here? there might be one or two herberts left who are always folding to our three-bets, is there a vulnerable big blind? etc etc..........
hell its a $26 mtt and post flop isn"t there greatest strength, why make moves in pre flop situations that they discuss and study daily on the forums?


--- Quote ---Perhaps a leak in my game is I tend to think villain always has a better hand ie if I have KQ, villain has to have AK, got to start thinking the other way around, if I have KQ, they have KJ.
--- End quote ---

is it a leak? there"s obviously some parts of your mtt approach that are working judging by your blog and the results you get, just keep doing what you are doing, but don"t rest on your laurels, start looking for more spots post-flop in these mtts where you can make raises or bets they've only seen donkeys do before and thus hopefully they end up making a mistake versus you be it folding or stacking off light etc etc.. scan the mtt forums, watch the regs at your buy in level and see if you can find some currently unpopular lines which are actually profitable because of some certain trend at the moment for example....

thats my tuppence worth :)

Erimus:
It was just a gut feeling I had when he 3 bet pre, obviously gut feelings don"t come across when people are discussing hands so that"s awkward for readers to judge.

I had just got myself back in the game with a double to 31 bigs, 4 bet shoving will get his bluffs out but also we are going to be snapped by QQ+ here.

Although I use hem, I don"t fully rely on the stats and I generally only play 2 tables so I use instinct rather than numbers, although they do help.

fair enough I did lose a quater of my stack, but with 24 bigs after folding I could still do damage to other stacks around.

I understand that aggression is usually best but sometimes we can be a bit more subtle and not just jam the lot in, hoping for a flip at best, again mid game to accumulate chips happy to take a flip or outdraw an overpair dependant upon the opponent, situation etc.

As a self proclaimed nit I was ok with the play and do understand why people would jam pre here but went with my initial instinct, at least I didn"t just wimp out and did try and win the pot but as played I was quite happy I made a good fold.

Thanks for the input.

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