Poker Forum > Strategy

Wadda'ya make of this then?

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noble1:

--- Quote ---think you have to fold....and wait for better position....but im guessin as my description doenst show anything amazin..i"m way off??

by good to find out...and ( so i learn...what u think of my analysis?..)..may not do this again....!!..lol
--- End quote ---


Waz1892 by joining in and discussing these types of situations,no matter how experienced you are,it is always good input as it gets you thinking and you will get an insight into how others apply logic [good or bad] to there reads.Notice i say reads as it is mostly beneficial to have some sort of read on your opponent when making these sort of calls.

quote by hi_am_chris

--- Quote ---if he had a monster wouldnt he usually be value betting the turn rather than just shipping it in, its not like if he bets he has to go all in there.
--- End quote ---


This is a common mistake that i used to make once and that i see others do time after time [its a leak in your game if you do it] why would you when you have a monster value bet giving away the strength of your hand? in poker the idea of betting is to confuse and induce incorrect calls or folds !!  
My friend who i have been helping lately was doing this,it seems to me a more common mistake amongst intermediate skill level players, my friend was recently in a situation with AKo in the cut off with a lag on the button who used position very well and was giving my mate a torrid time coming over the top of him in the last few pots he had played. It was a six handed $1/2 nl ring game he raised $7 the button called , the flop came Ad 9h 5s my friend leads out for $12 the button calls the turn is 4c he bets $32 and the button folds,not such a mistake a lot would argue , he played the hand well sometimes i might check the turn just to mix up my game a bit but when i asked him his thought process on it he replied i didnt think that he had me beat but because of the last few pots i wanted to let him know that i had the goods................i explained to him that against this type of opponent that a check on the turn would be a better play "let him try and bluff the turn,there is no point in this situation in representing it,against this type of player and this situation a check is best,against most players the turn bet is the best option but sometimes the idea is to try and trick them" it wasnt untill i asked him his thought process that we found a leak in his game and now he is working towards fixing it with this ringing in his ears from me -
When you make a bet or raise on any street,ask yourself these questions.
What am i hoping my opponent does?
Is this bet likely to accomplish that?
What hands am i trying to get to fold?
What hands am i trying to get to call?
What hands am i trying to get to reraise?
What hand different from mine am i representing?

Mikeyboy9361:
Ask my self all those questions and then answer them in 20 seconds !!! :D. Always good to read your thoughts Noble, I don"t know how you have the time to post such detailed analysis.

AMRN:

--- Quote from: noble1 on October 20, 2008, 15:11:35 PM ---
When you make a bet or raise on any street,ask yourself these questions.
What am i hoping my opponent does?
Is this bet likely to accomplish that?
What hands am i trying to get to fold?
What hands am i trying to get to call?
What hands am i trying to get to reraise?
What hand different from mine am i representing?

--- End quote ---


You"re dead right, and the ability to be able to answer these questions before you decide on what play to make, how to size your bet, etc, is often the difference between a losing player, a winning player, and a big winning player.   However, where I come unstuck.... is how the hell do you apply these questions and consider the answers in the hot-bed of online play. Clearly in a live game you can take a few moments to consider these, and make plays based on this level of analysis... but online with the timer ticking away it"s just not possible, and gut instinct (or plain old maths) takes over - especially if the play you are trying to analyse occurs on one of four tables you"re playing at the time.

Having just re-read this para, I"m guessing that"s why I"m just an also-ran. I assume the top online players are indeed able to carry out thiis level of analysis in a few seconds, and that"s what separates "them and us".

Waz1892:

--- Quote from: noble1 on October 20, 2008, 15:11:35 PM ---

--- Quote ---think you have to fold....and wait for better position....but im guessin as my description doenst show anything amazin..i"m way off??

by good to find out...and ( so i learn...what u think of my analysis?..)..may not do this again....!!..lol
--- End quote ---


Waz1892 by joining in and discussing these types of situations,no matter how experienced you are,it is always good input as it gets you thinking and you will get an insight into how others apply logic [good or bad] to there reads.Notice i say reads as it is mostly beneficial to have some sort of read on your opponent when making these sort of calls.


--- End quote ---


thank-you.

noble1:
agreed for some [most even] it is difficult online to do at first but with practice and with experience it will become 2nd nature to most people if you keep focused and follow a plan of improvement,with my friend we found one leak which now he is aware of and when a similar situation with the same type of player crops up the play will be automatic to him.
This is why i"m a great believer in reviewing games played and discussing hands and situations with friends and posting on the forums.

Here is a play i made recently - its a small blind v big blind situation, Pokerccini is a cunning tricky type who makes unorthodox plays but generally mixes it up well with solid stuff as well.He is not normally the type to limp from the small blind so my alarm bells were ringing and 22+ AKo+s AQs something in that range i was putting him on pre-flop,the previous 4 blinds battles we had i had won 3 of them reraising his raise twice pre-flop and reraising his lead on a ace flop the 3rd occasion,i pretty much felt that he thought i was yanking his chain and i was.On the flop he paused just for a split second but it was discernible [not is normal timing] , can any one guess what my thought process was at this point with the texture of the flop and with my hand?

Dealt to Robbieoz [7h 3d]
Pokerccini: calls 200
Robbieoz: checks
*** FLOP *** [2c Ah 5h]
Pokerccini: bets 400
Robbieoz: raises 400 to 800
Pokerccini: calls 400
*** TURN *** [2c Ah 5h] [4s]
Pokerccini: checks
Robbieoz: bets 2000
Pokerccini: calls 2000
*** RIVER *** [2c Ah 5h 4s] [Ks]
Pokerccini: checks
Robbieoz: bets 2400
Pokerccini: calls 1665 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (735) returned to Robbieoz
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Robbieoz: shows [7h 3d] (a straight, Ace to Five)
Pokerccini: shows [Kc Kd] (three of a kind, Kings)
Robbieoz collected 9780 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9780 | Rake 0
Board [2c Ah 5h 4s Ks]
Seat 8: Robbieoz (big blind) showed [7h 3d] and won (9780) with a straight, Ace to Five
Seat 9: Pokerccini (small blind) showed [Kc Kd] and lost with three of a kind, Kings

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