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Cash Game Hand on Betfair - I have QQ.

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noble1:
u might want to edit the above marty its been left in quotes,.. :)
read what i said chap please, i said if i 3barrel without reads oop then i"ll do milking bets at this sort of buy in, the texture of the board makes a difference u know as well as reads.. You point out that villain cannot flat KK here? how on earth can we determine this :) there are no reads given, its that assumption thing again, i hate it tbh, you cannot base it on anything.. Players have different personalities and to tag a random with no reads as a station or have a thought process from the off that he is going to call 3barrels with say 55 66 77 88 99 TT or KQs is just to simplistic, its the kind of thinking that advocates spew like this and players keep on telling each other in the forums that it is a cooler and that long term it"ll pay off and so the cycle goes on and on and on, players reaffirm to each other all this dribble about how so+so percentage of so+so stake will pay it off, well guess what , i"m yet to see any proof in the pudding on these magical figures ;D.. Well i for one are yet to see someone post there stats over a large enough sample to justify barreling a texture like this OOP, have you? if so please post the link.. With all of the training sites and info out there believe it or not the std of the donkey is getting better, i"m not saying that you can"t still find them but to do so requires a bit more table selection than it did once upon a time. Until as a player who wants to learn and get better, you cannot do this putting bra"s on your head and conjuring up mythical %"s that proof its long term +ev, you have to use reads and base your decision making based on what you have seen previously and adjust from there.. Once you get good at this, in the micros especially then skill advantage plus position is a huge benefit to your winrate, not mindless button mashing pot bets justified by mythical figures..

--- Quote ---We will have to play hands oop, but when we beat our villains range, and feel he will call with worse, then there is no need to get passive
--- End quote ---

agreed on that it seems lol , afterall u advocate having some idea of villains ranges which requires reads :)

we"ll have to agree to disagree chap me thinks :) your in the blast it, they are all donks camp, thats how u believe to improve your win rate at micros[please correct if i assume wrongly :)]
I"m in the use reads and our skill advantage to better effect to achieve a high win-rate at micros camp...

Marty719:
u keep getting min value noble ;)

U know its possible to bet bet bet without being spewy? U knoew when the average 20nl villain flats a 3b we can mostly discount KK from their range (bar a tiny % of the time)? Im fine with milking bet-sizes, but theres nothing in ne1s post to say thats not what we want.  If QQ is not in your triple barrel range here, then you WILL be losing value here.  I hate to be as blunt, and I know poker is a game of different scenarios and there is not often a definitive "correct" answer, but at this level, triple b"n QQ on an AAA flop will yield a large long-term profit.

Fold/giving up close to the top of our range is an important skill in NLH, but not one we should be looking for excuses to do.  If we can bet and get called by worse more than called by better, then we should.  I do not see how u cannot realise this?

If your 3 street value range in this spot in a vacuum is Ax only, then, in the nicest possible way...HU4rolls? :)

noble1:
lmao marty, your argument is full of spew guesstimates, to advocate when to 3barrel any hand be it with air, tpmk or a set etc and hoping to get paid off then to truly get good at poker and maximise your winrate then you need reads, why? because skill advantage is largely about being able to hand read, when we you can accurately put an opponent on a range of hands then by betting the flop and turn it helps to narrow this even further, so by the river firing the 3rd barrel on the river then it all depends, when i decide to fire a 3rd barrel then my decision making is based on the board texture, my image, player style/tendencies are factors which are dependent to when i choose to do so, there is no set range to know when to 3barrel for myself, it depends on the factors i"ve mentioned[again+again ;D].. I"m sure u realise this marty?
i hate to be blunt :) but your arguments for barreling readless do not imho lead to high winrates at any buy in ;D

usual links that i leave behind :)
http://www.pkr.com/en/raise-your-game/ring-game-strategy/cashgame5-1of1/
http://balugabay.com/?p=19

Marty719:
moral of story...in a vacuum ignore value??  If you find a WINNING cash game player who says barrelling isnt good against unknowns, then i owe u a drink.  dnt fancy ur chances.  we have to play readless quite a bit in poker.  we do not ignore value.

I shall agree to disagree, and so will evry other decent player on here...

Marty719:
ps - readless what is ur triple barrel value range here?  how do u advocate playing the hand more profitably in this situation longterm??

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