Poker Forum > Strategy
Player interfering?
JamieCarra:
--- Quote from: AMRN on February 01, 2011, 21:33:54 PM ---
I think it is different between cash and tournament play. In a cash game, it"s up the player to sort himself out, and be sure of the action etc, but any mistakes don"t have a bearing on anyone else at the table..... the difference with tournament play is that any action has a potential knock on effect on the other players at the table, so in my opinion there is no problem speaking up.
--- End quote ---
You should always speak up if there has been / is about to be a mistake made. Even if it"s in a cash game it can effect the entire table as at some point afterwards you will in all probability end up in a pot against one of the players who were involved in the ruling and their stacksize at this point will be partly determined by the decision.
Personally I think in this instance common sense should be used. Assuming the dealer just said 15 (and didn"t specify whether it was hundred or thousand) then the player should easily have been able to work out which was most likely by the size of the pot and previous action, ie if the pot was 20k, then it"s pretty obvious that the bet was going to be 15k and so the player should be forced to make the call.
If there was only around 3k in the middle then it would be reasonable to assume the bet was 1500 so assuming that neither player had exposed their hand yet then I think the caller should be given back the 1500 and given the option to either fold or call the 15k.
PantsMan:
With regards to speaking up then yes, i believe you should, whether it be backing up the player or the dealer. The TD wasn"t there at the time so can only go on what people say about what went on and the rules.
With regards to whether the call stands i believe it should, whether it be an APAT or any other tournament. It"s down to the player making the call to check if he"s not sure what the amount is. It"s easy to say common sense should apply but who makes the decision and based on what? Different people would have different opinions on what bet size would be reasonable given a certain pot. There are too many factors regarding whether or not a bet seems reasonable and whether someone would call that bet given the relative stack sizesm pot size etc. That"s not a TDs job so imo he was right to enforce the rules and the call stands.
Chipaccrual:
We had a similar incident in Spain a few weeks back.
One of the Irish lads had folded to an allin after he had initially raised, but it wasn"t very clear that was what he had done, as he insta flipped his pocket nines over and his oppo insta flipped pocket queens.
It was only that Beth MacInnes spoke up and said she heard him say "fold" that the situation got defused.
If she had not said anything, it would have been very difficult for the TD to make a judgement.
MintTrav:
--- Quote from: AMRN on February 02, 2011, 07:59:29 AM ---
In a GUKPT or WSOP event, yes the ruling the TD issued was correct and the full call should be made..... however this is APAT
--- End quote ---
Tends to be the higher the buy-in, the more flexibility & common-sense is applied and the cheaper, the more rigidly rules get enforced.
AMRN:
--- Quote from: MintTrav on February 02, 2011, 11:53:45 AM ---
--- Quote from: AMRN on February 02, 2011, 07:59:29 AM ---
In a GUKPT or WSOP event, yes the ruling the TD issued was correct and the full call should be made..... however this is APAT
--- End quote ---
Tends to be the higher the buy-in, the more flexibility & common-sense is applied and the cheaper, the more rigidly rules get enforced.
--- End quote ---
It"s a shame as one of the concepts of APAT is to introduce new players to the live environment.... such lack of common sense is more likely to frighten new players away rather than encourage them to come back.
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