Poker Forum > Strategy
Hand Analysis (from OnLive)
lukybugur:
Thanks biffa. I"m still not 100% convinced that a push on the flop is the most profitable play here (ha ha, I say whilst hemorrhaging chips chasing a flush in a BlueSq SitnGo)
24k in the pot - all limped in for 8k, jacklevel for almost 1/5 of his stack from an early position (disguising a monster or in a desperate situation???)
GB2Loose has only committed 8k of 170k
jacklevel has committed 8k of 49k
If I push my remaining 54k in on the flop in 1st position, I have to believe that I"m only going to be called by a hand that has me beat ... ?
I think I"m now, having seen what I"ve written above, coming round to your ways of thinking. It was a shock to go from the aggressor / trapper to defender / trapped. As it happened online (quickly) I was forced to make what felt like a split-second decision for my tourney life, and I now live with the fact that it was the wrong one.
kinboshi:
As you"re out of position, the shove makes even more sense as it negates that issue on the other streets.
The other very important thing you"ve alluded to as well is the time you had to make the decision. In the cold light of day it"s easy to think it though analytically and calmly. There"s no timebank button on iPoker, and so you have the same time you have for all decisions - and it"s difficult to think as clearly in that 20-30 seconds (or however long it is).
lukybugur:
--- Quote from: Kinboshi on December 04, 2007, 13:23:49 PM ---
As you"re out of position, the shove makes even more sense as it negates that issue on the other streets.
--- End quote ---
... which brings Gus Hansen"s (an aggressive player"s) thinking into it. With a flop like this, he"d see himself as IN position. I, having instantly switched from tight passive to tight aggressive with my 16k bet, felt that I was then IN position. It"s just a pity no bugger respected it ... >:( :D
Oh it"s such a complex game ... and I love it!!! ;D
kinboshi:
--- Quote from: lukybugur on December 04, 2007, 13:35:23 PM ---
--- Quote from: Kinboshi on December 04, 2007, 13:23:49 PM ---
As you"re out of position, the shove makes even more sense as it negates that issue on the other streets.
--- End quote ---
... which brings Gus Hansen"s (an aggressive player"s) thinking into it. With a flop like this, he"d see himself as IN position. I, having instantly switched from tight passive to tight aggressive with my 16k bet, felt that I was then IN position. It"s just a pity no bugger respected it ... >:( :D
Oh it"s such a complex game ... and I love it!!! ;D
--- End quote ---
Isn"t the point of him looking at that as being "in" position about him being able to dictate play from there?
I don"t think the 16K bet looks like you"re delighted with the flop (but of course, you might well be and are hoping for some action and that"s exactly the point). If either have the flush draw - they"re probably pushing here.
You also know that both are loose aggressive players, and therefore you must have been expecting something back from them from the 16K bet?
Like you said though. Plenty of ways to skin a cat, and some are more painful than others!
UKChamp:
I would have folded pre flop.
UTG is short stack, so i would assume the limp is probably strength. Therefore your 50:50 vs lower pairs and a significant dog to AQ/AT/KQ/QQ/TT/JJ/KK/AA/AK/AJ, your only ahead against lower Queen holdings and playing out of position doesnt give you anything to work with, whether you hit top pair or not you wont know where you are.
The more pertinent issue here is that he is probably going in on any flop, and unlikley to fold to a flop push from you out of position given the value in the pot and that no strength was shown preflop by either member of the pot. All of which we gain no information from. The only move available is to come over the top preflop or fold. Calling gives you no leway to get away and although only 4k, does nonetheless represent chips that could be saved for a better position.
Given that you dont have a large stack, I would have folded.
At the margin, a flary play would have been (with no UTG limp and bb vs sb) to limp, hoping for a BB raise and then come over the top. With your tight image, its unlikly that the big stack could have called when it looks like hes been trapped.
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