Poker Forum > Strategy
JJ in late position
George2Loose:
What about when he 4 bets?
pokerpops:
--- Quote from: George2Loose on November 10, 2011, 11:03:51 AM ---
What about when he 4 bets?
--- End quote ---
In the hand I posted (ie situation/stacks etc but readless)? Fold, I still have a very playable stack.
Other stack sizes? Flatting the 4bet might be an option if I can hit or fold to a bet postflop?
I"m learning here - what"s your view George?
George2Loose:
--- Quote from: david3103 on November 10, 2011, 11:14:42 AM ---
--- Quote from: George2Loose on November 10, 2011, 11:03:51 AM ---
What about when he 4 bets?
--- End quote ---
In the hand I posted (ie situation/stacks etc but readless)? Fold, I still have a very playable stack.
Other stack sizes? Flatting the 4bet might be an option if I can hit or fold to a bet postflop?
I"m learning here - what"s your view George?
--- End quote ---
Think you played it fine.
Let me ask you a question. If he had bet river and you called and he had 65 instead of 76 would there still be a thread about this?
Sometimes we take lines and we end up getting outdrawn. And it"s frustrating. We all do it. "Should have shoved the turn...." "Should have folded pre...." Anything to save those precious chips which aren"t ours anymore. Doesn"t mean we didn"t take the best line.
I"m probably with the bet turn camp for value but similarly I don"t mind checking turn to try and get him to bluff river. So all in all WP and UL.
pokerpops:
--- Quote from: George2Loose on November 10, 2011, 12:36:52 PM ---
Let me ask you a question. If he had bet river and you called and he had 65 instead of 76 would there still be a thread about this?
--- End quote ---
I know what you"re saying here and I understand but in this instance yes I would have posted. I"ve been using HEM for a while now and although I"m not sophisticated in it"s use I do use the HUD figures to guage my response to raises, and the fold to 3bet etc
I used the info here and it felt like I"d been duped by it.
The rest of the discussion about how we play JJ to an UTG raise has been interesting though, and helpful, thanks to all.
I"m particularly proud of
--- Quote from: George2Loose on November 10, 2011, 12:36:52 PM ---
Think you played it fine.
So all in all WP and UL.
--- End quote ---
TheSnapper:
--- Quote from: david3103 ---
If I give him the range you ascribe without adding in the suited connectors I"m 55/45
if I add in suited connectors it gets even better for me but I have no idea which end of the range he"s raising with if I flat
I lose chips when I fold, win them when he folds, and if we calls and we see the flop I have better information on which to base my play.
--- End quote ---
So are you.......
* Raising for value
* Raising for information
* Bluffing
--- Quote from: david3103 ---
If I raise and he folds the bottom half of his range ie calls with TT+ and AQs+ the position reverses but now I have a better idea of what to do as the hand plays out
--- End quote ---
You seem to have assumed that he folds the bottom half of his range and flats the other half. Thats not how it plays out though.
Villain opens with 77+,AJs+,76s,AQo+ = 96 combos
So we 3 bet and.....
* villain folds TT-77,76s,AJs = 32 combos and he"ll do this 33% .Is that a good result for us?
* Villain 4 bets JJ+,AKs,AKo = 44 combos and he"ll do this 44%. We will fold and relinquish our 37% equity
* Villain likely doesn"t flat much at all, maybe AQs,AQo = 20 combos flatting 21%
Now villain may well flat with AKo or even some of 77-JJ or some other variation depending on his own personal tendencies, current mood or perception of your 3 bet range but those villain specific variations will be small and won"t change the numbers much.
--- Quote from: david3103 ---
My reason for posting this was mostly the issue of "knowing your opponent" - his stats were all I had and it played out as it did. With zero information on his UTG opening range I can"t imagine that flatting JJ is ever a good strategy.
--- End quote ---
With 63 hands on the villain showing a nitty 10/5 it seems prudent to assign a really tight utg raising range. Our set-mine value goes up against this range because villain is more likely to have a genuine hand that he can stack off with when we hit our set.
As far as using your HUD, it is a must to have access to position specific stats. When I hover on the pfr stat I get a pop up that shows pfr by position.
Looks like this......
right click / view image, for clearer view
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